Tablighi Jamaat Under the spot Light

[TheBatman]

TJ EXPOSED


Aa

For all those who want to see a debate on Tablighi Jamaat ...get ready !!...Im gonna finally expose the truth!

Anyone want to post comments and join in feel free!

[br ash]

looks like some one has peved you off


Salaam


ash

[Sayf]

Asalamu Alaikum,

before this starts, i want to tell everyone that please do not swear, insult or do the * typing.

Allah Hafiz and let the thugs begin the Jihad.

[shaqArif]

Originally Posted by TheBatman

TJ EXPOSED


Aa

For all those who want to see a debate on Tablighi Jamaat ...get ready !!...Im gonna finally expose the truth!

Anyone want to post comments and join in feel free!

Some may have caught the earlier unedited version of this post, but I've now replaced it with this.

I've decided I don't want to debate Tabligh Jamaat with you. I'm running scared! No, joking aside, the truth is, you have your conception of what TJ is - I don't know what experience you have of TJ, and I don't much care. I've made my criticisms of MPAC - I believe them to be valid, and I would hope that you would take them on board. However, as I mentioned earlier, as far as TJ is concerned, MPAC is an irrelevancy - you have not yet achieved the status of a minor irritant. When you are able to mobilise people in the millions as Tabligh Jamaat has done, (including the Pakistani Cricket Captain ) then maybe we can discuss this topic again.

To use an analogy, you criticising TJ is like the Accrington Stanley football team telling Real Madrid that they have a poor defence.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you write here about TJ. There are about 70 odd forum members here to read it. With all due respect to the forumites, The Tablighi Jamaat has had a lot more vociferous critics than yourself, and guess what? It's still going strong, and getting stronger by the day.

So go ahead - slag it off all you like; you won't find me rising to defend it from your comments - I really do have better things to do with my life.

I pray that God accepts your efforts, in which I believe you are sincere, if misguided.

Salaams.

[br ash]

TJ are mainly door Knockers.

Yes they have spread deen, how they see fit. Every one has there own style. There typical Pakistani.

Let me elaborate, go to the Mosque, after namaz they give you Dawah, nothing wrong with that. They come up with there spill, you should spend 3 days, 3 three weeks, 3 months in the path of Allah nothing wrong with that, other than some of these TJ believe that is literally written that is how every one supposed to do Tabligh. The irony is a few years back when we started to get a few Arabs prying at the Mosque, one of them stood up and said, this is not Islamic. Man did they cool down from then on.

My biggest criticism is you go on three days, they then encourage making a commitment for three weeks, never ending cycle. Nothing wrong with that, if you are unemployed. If memory is right, over 20 years ago, remembered one chap from Pakistan an Amir of TJ said you live in a UK that you have no excuse to go on Tabligh, you can easily get unemployment benefit. Only one person said anything then, when he criticised this amir. He was vocal, this is not right, every one said you misunderstood. I know he did not misunderstand, the Amir said that.


The biggest waste of time with TJ is consists of mainly going around knocking doors, and a few lectures after namaz.

That’s it, know I prefer a proper lecture/Dawah, on a aspect of Islam, most of the Dawah they quote, my dad need to read to me when i was toddler. It gets a bit boring NOW LISTENING TO REPEATS.

The one thing that if TJ did was structure the learning of deen in mosques, deeen would defiantly expand.

Yes they have converts, no question about it, they also lose converts. If one has to go by how long they have been functioning in the UK, TJ should have at least 3/4 MILLION hard core members, i would be surprised if they had 30,000 hardcore members in the UK


Saying all this, my farther retired now, for a number of years now, he is in his 70s, spends all his time on the rd, with TJ. He is very happy.

Had TJ taken the bull by the horns, and started a process of Ilm, seeking Gen. knowledge, historical, political they would had me many years ago.

Saying that my personal opinion TJ is nothing other than door knockers, who convert the odd individual Alhamdolillah, who have completely wasted waste amount of energy. Imagine all these door knockers at election time, the message they could spread. One can only dream. Actually the most potent Muslim force out there, it takes courage and conviction to knock on people doors, and take rejection, and here we in the Muslim community have a latent potent force, which is being wasted

Salaam

Ash

[TheBatman]

TJ under the spotlight

Ok Ill be straight, this is what my experience is of TJ and why I think in many ways it is an evil in todays world rather then a benefit.

It started as Shaq rightly said some old bloke thought we need to focus on Islam becuase else we are all going to end up as hindu's. Eg in his area of the world, 'focusing on Islam' was going to the mosque, putting your trousers above your ankles, and sleeping at the mosque when you get there, praying in jamaah etc etc'

Its typical of indian Muslims (including all Muslims from the sub continent) that there himdu roots take over and they feel the need to worship something other then God eg a scholar!

So instead of adapting TJ to a new modern world, they looked back to the great old man in India and said 'If he said no politics, then thats the rule no politics. - If he said dnt focus on jihad, well we mere mortals are not better then him, we hear and obey!'

Thus the millions who could have been activated by a good group, founded by a Good man, were pacified by old farts who inhereted the group 'eg the leadership of the group now'.

Instead of taking on injustice, they said - focus on something else, South African TJ members never fought against apartheid in the main (read Fareed Isaac's book - TJ Scholar) because they used to say 'at least they let us pray and build mosques!'

Basically TJ is a christian like cult. Created by a good man pacified by scholar worshipers. They neglect jihad by focusing on everything bat jihad. thus you see the massive emphasis they place on 'praying in jamaat, rolling your trousers above your ankles' acts even they dont see as 'fard' but talk of jihad, and you will they 'non import of it in their language. Its ok, yes we should do someting, or as Shaq said 'I dont disagree with it'.

Never does it have the import of salaat in a TJ members life, nor even the import of trouser length, and by making it irrelevent they pacify the sincere men and women who join it.

Now not all TJ people like this, and within TJ there is many unhappy Imams and Muslims, but in the main they keep a lid on them by abuse and even violence.

TJ is an evil in the present day and age because they de-focus the Muslims from defending themselves. It can and should change, but as long as people like Shaq keep defending it, holding it up as some sort of 'isamic movement' then the few active Muslims who want to change it will always be silenced.

Either itmust change or it must be held publically accountable, despite the load groans of its cult members.

As for 'how big it is' as some sort of guide to greatness - the christians are bigger - are they right?

[TheBatman]

Aa

Jus to let Shaq know Acfrington stanley have just moved to bigger stadiums. And Unlike TJ, those who visit MPACUK have internet and can read! MPACUK now recieved 1,000,000+ hits a month!

More then all the Tj Mosques in the UK can pacify no doubt.

[abdulmojid]

yea your better than tj :roll:

[TheBatman]

My friend it would be hard not to be!

[Raeesa]

Intrestingly enough there is a number of critcisms on here about how wrong TJ's are yet, for those who talk about how the Ummah is failing us theres very little ideas on improvement and progress.

I think we need to recognise theres a difference between the purpose and aims of MPAC and TJ. MPAC has specfically been created for the very purpose of attacking the media which is set to demonize muslims, whereas the aims of the TJ's are not the same, and nor should they be! Two organisations which are doing the same thing is a waste. The aims of the TJ are those which teach one about Islam in terms of imaan, fiqh etc.

Quoting from Batman's post in another thread (regarding MPAC):

We are a group that fights war, not teaches you how to brush your teeth or read the Arabic Alphabet!!!! - learn salaat from your parents - not mpac!

So comparing the two organisations where each orgs aim and purpose of existence is different is useless.

As for the method TJ's use, thats an issue in itself. TJ started from back home with its simple door to door service. I personlly don't think the door to door service is an amazingly bad thing. Afterall, it was a method used at the time of the prophet (peace be upon him) and is a realy effective dawah method. At the same time, there is a lot that can be changed and is changing. TJ's now have some real nice English lectures, i;ve heard some awesome ones and its a step forward from the usual urdu-style talks. I've seen TJ's support boycotts and even encourage people to fulfill their complusory duties before going on thier trips away.

lastly, the biggest worry is when you feel your "better" than someone or a group of people. Take the good and leave the bad inshallah.

[TheBatman]

Aa

Raeesa this an argument many put forward, but In my opinion it is flawed.
Not every group can teach everything, so as MPACUK said, its re-mit is not 'teaching muslims how to pray salah' its about jihad. However imagine if members of mpacuk were taught not to think highly of salaat and in the main due to our culturing and training, stopped praying salaah' - then we would have an issue. Imagine if you asked MPACUK team to pray, all all we said was 'we dont disagree with it' or 'whats the point of praying we havent done the basics yet!' then the group itself would be to blame for pushing an ideology contrary to Islam.

The danger is when groups claim they are teaching you 'ISLAM' but fail to tell you that infact al they are teching you 'PART OF ISLAM' then you have a serious problem. TJ members think they are good Muslims by following TJ, never once are they told to 'go to other groups to find about ..jihad for example, to them TJ has all the answers to all of ISLAM, and the more of a TJ member you are the more of a Muslim you are.

Worse they actively relegate Jihad to their members, a sin so great it takes muslims out of islam.

I agree if TJ said like mpacuk, that it wanted muslim to learn about jihad from other groups, then problem solved, infact its the opposite.

They are committing a crime, simply due to the fact that old men are following a leader long since dead, who based his group on the reality of india in partition.

They are pacifying Millions of Muslims and claiming they are teaching Islam. How can so many Millions who follow this group be so inactive when defending their own brothers. how can so many Muslims be so flawed in this jihad when it is incumbent upon them.

Those who follow this cult are so vitriolic about their support for it , that those who want to reform it are driven out of the group or are silenced. It is only the brave that dare speak out aginst its injustice now.

[abdulmojid]

Originally Posted by TheBatman

My friend it would be hard not to be!

O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former)
049.011

[Musab]

Good quote from the Quran brother abdulmojid

[shaqArif]

I agree if TJ said like mpacuk, that it wanted muslim to learn about jihad from other groups, then problem solved, infact its the opposite.

That's funny... all I've seen is MPAC telling us that all other groups are a waste of space. Whereas TJ maybe don't actively encourage TJers to get involved in other groups, they at least do not have a policy of slagging them off!

They are committing a crime, simply due to the fact that old men are following a leader long since dead, who based his group on the reality of india in partition.

See that's the disadvantage of belonging to a group that is more than five years old... leaders do tend to die, unfortunately. However, believe it or not, there are other leaders ready to take their place. Some of those are old - but then maybe when they were picking the leaders they didn't realise that wisdom doesn't come with age, it is given at youth and then slowly taken away. It would be interesting to see the demographics of MPAC? How many members do you have and how many of them, %wise, are over the age of 30? How many over 40?
Of course not all our leaders are so old. The person that introduced me to TJ is a medical doctor who specialises in Diabetes research. He is very well respected in his field and is regularly called over from Karachi to lecture to the medical profession here. When he first came here, he combined his duties with working amongst the muslims of Nottingham. As a result of his efforts there is now a mosque where previously there was none, and has 20-30 people praying there for daily prayers. He is also a Hafiz of the Quran and led the tarawih prayers at this mosque when he came to visit England last year.. The leader in charge of the Markaz in London is a Chartered Accountant and of the leaders in Dewsbury, there are two medical doctors, one of whom is a Quran Hafiz, and the other is an Alim.
Finally for a group whose reality is based on a Partitioned India, they seem to be quite successful globally, wouldn't you say?
This rather destroys the image you had of 'old men following a dead leader', wouldn't you say?

But then when was any other conception you had of TJ correct?

[TheBatman]

Little Mr Tablighi Jamaat shows how annoyed he is!

Man you just cant stand MPAC being right can you, compared to the pointless group your in...get over it! or leave them! - why take it out on us just cause you feel inferior?

[TheBatman]

Aa

Once again you try to move to any point but the one point that TJ is under the spotlight for, who cares how old the guy who introduced you is?????

Why dont TJ Members take part in Jihad and teach their members to defend the ummah!!! Its not a hard question to answer .....unless of course your part of TJ!!!

[shaqArif]

and that's what you have to offer by way of a response?

That really is an irrefutable argument, I have no response to that I'm afraid.

[shaqArif]

Originally Posted by TheBatman

Aa

Once again you try to move to any point but the one point that TJ is under the spotlight for, who cares how old the guy who introduced you is?????

Why dont TJ Members take part in Jihad and teach their members to defend the ummah!!! Its not a hard question to answer .....unless of course your part of TJ!!!

I don't believe I've said anything about the age of the person that introduced me to TJ... if anything, it was you who brought up the issue of age when you referred to TJ as being 'old men following a dead leader'.

You still haven't told me how many members MPAC has. Please let me know, I'm interested.

Please define Jihad clearly and precisely. I will then tell the rest of the TJs TJ's that they should do it.

[ayesha]

Can all the organisations in the world teach and promote true Islam - i.e.active Islam where you partake in the Jihaad for the sake of Allah SWT???

I think this would be better if all organisations/groups united and believed that we must teach Muslims not only of spiritual devotion to Allah SWT but ALL obligations to Allah, including Jihaad - defending the Ummah.

'Whoever died without fighting in Allah's cause and without expressing any desire (or determination) for Jihaad, has died upon a type of HYPOCRISY. (32:24)

Rememeber, we have 1000's of groups and millions of enemies working against us. it's impossible practically for 1 group to stop them all! We need to unite in this concept so all groups join the jihaad and protect us the Ummah.

Bring on more organisations (such as MPACUK) to defend the ummah!!!!

[sunni]

Salam sister
well said, I agree. But the question remains how do we exactly unite these Muslim organisations?

we Muslims are good at merely talking, and holding venues attracting thousands (Allah knows what then happens after the gatherings, all one hears is 'so and so held venue attracting 8,000Muslims Allhamdulillah')

but real methods of uniting Muslims need to be implemented, but then again do we not already have the methods? 'the Qur'an and the sunnah?'

The real issue is that Muslim organisation of this day and age, act as though they are far more intellectual, have better evidences for their existence .... Hence when the issue of being united comes into discussion, they act suprior to the next.
I believe this is the real cause of the collapse of the Muslim Ummah. This certainly needs to be resolved for future unity amongst Muslims!

wasalam
Miss Sunni

Originally Posted by ayesha

Can all the organisations in the world teach and promote true Islam - i.e.active Islam where you partake in the Jihaad for the sake of Allah SWT???

I think this would be better if all organisations/groups united and believed that we must teach Muslims not only of spiritual devotion to Allah SWT but ALL obligations to Allah, including Jihaad - defending the Ummah.

'Whoever died without fighting in Allah's cause and without expressing any desire (or determination) for Jihaad, has died upon a type of HYPOCRISY. (32:24)

Rememeber, we have 1000's of groups and millions of enemies working against us. it's impossible practically for 1 group to stop them all! We need to unite in this concept so all groups join the jihaad and protect us the Ummah.

Bring on more organisations (such as MPACUK) to defend the ummah!!!!