Muslims sisters in France regarding headscarf..please watch - Page 2

Zinnia · 30-03-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehook

So Zinnia and rest of who chanted, what say you now?

what i say now hook is that i am like a candle in the wind...umm forgot the rest but what i mean is when i know nothing about a subject i just go with the flow and now i am confused!

who is right hook or aygazi?!

hook, please recommend a book or website about this so i acn see for myself and if you are right then i will say nafl of tawba for being so nasty about napolean.

thehook · 30-03-2005, 04:12 PM

Ah, I'll do better Zinnia. I'll give you an email of a man who has researched, a Muslim of high clibre and fights with banks against fraud, interest and he has completed a book about Napolean and he wanted to set the record straight.

He's got all the war document, memors and all sort and was surprised how everyone got it wrong and then travelled like others all over world, chasing information.

If you go this web site Insha-Allah

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/ipb-archive/people/david.htm

Book called Napoleon et l'Islam by Christian Cherfils, published in 1914, which chronicles Napoleon Bonaparte's conversion to Islam in 1798, leading to the Code Napoleon, the French civil law adaptation of Islamic law. David played a great part in it too.

You can contact him and he'll sort a book out Insha-Allah. It was I think published a three years ago, don't know, but recently and powerful book it is. I read much of it cause I was typing much of it and then he sent it anbd it was published by a Muslim printers.

There's a lot in the Internet but, one has to be carefully and research thoroughly. My love is history which is why I do a lot of research and even travel to countries, following leads after leads to get to the truth. The lead that got me to who Napolean really was, was not what many Muslims and Non-Muslims say he was.

He had a lot of enemies, and a lot tried to infiltrate his work and do things to discredit him and say it was Napoleans work. But his memoris is his work and there is the real Napolean and in his letters and war documents and why he did this and that. It took years getting it, cause government wont let one have it until certain years went by and they have, which is how the Muslim on web site I gave you I think did but also he wasn't on his own to do work, there were other good people to getting it sorted.

Hope that's helpful. Contact him and he'll sort you a copy. If am right, then its really me who should apologies for being harsh, not you. I broke a fundamental rule in dawah, so my apologies and Insha-Allah, may Allah forgive me for my arrogance and sincerley did wrong saying what I said when I went on about chanting etc.

Find out Insha-Allah and wallahi, you will be surprised on the truth of it all.

Wassalaam

Zinnia · 30-03-2005, 05:33 PM

Salam bro and JazakAllah i will defo contact him and get a copy IA
and you were not harsh-you were perfectly right-lesson no 550 for zinnia:
don't comment til you get all the facts!
ps if you want to see harsh treatment look at how rabbit treated me in the saldin thread sob sob

lol!

ayqazi · 30-03-2005, 06:09 PM

I don't want to argue about this. The quotes the brother gives about Napolean saying Islamic stuff fits in with his wanting to 'lull fanaticism to sleep before we uproot it.'

As for the quote:

"In Germany I told my friend Goethe about the facts I had gathered concerning Islam and added my personal reflections on the subject. After listening to me with attention, he said, 'If that is Islam, we are all Muslims'"

He doesn't actually profess to becoming a Muslim. He merely tells his friend about Islamic beliefs he has picked up with his dealings with the Muslims. I don't regard this as unrefutable proof, but still I'll take your word on it for now. We must always study both points of view in detail before making a decision.

Still, I judge Islam by character. Napoleon didn't have the charactistics of a Muslim at heart.

Look at that Yasmin Alibhai Brown - she claims to have "become religious" - but are her secular-supporting writings characteristic of Muslims? She is from the innovationist Ismaili sect. She claims openly to taking part in rituals in her local "mosque" derived from Zoroastrianism. A Muslim? She claims to bea Muslim, but is she?

But still, I'll take the brother's view on the subject that he proclaimed his conversion to Islam. To not do so would be arrogance, and I hate arrogance, whenever I feel it inside me, I seek refuge from Allah.

Whether or not he was really a Muslim inside, I won't believe until I get more info on him, his charactistics are not that of a Muslim. Even if his enemies did campaign against him, would Allah have let them succeed in blackening his name? "While they plot, he plots - and Allah is the best of those who plot." (Qur'anic translation)

I'll be sure to do more research on the topic, Jazakallah for the info,
Asfand Yar

p.s. If you get all those quotes on the web, what search terms do you use? I tried 'napoleon muslim' and 'napoleon convert islam' and I didn't get anything like what you did.

ayqazi · 30-03-2005, 06:16 PM

I saw a picture of David Musa Pidcock on the islamicparty.com website - I remember him, he appeared on Islam Channel in a talk show once.

Cool!

thehook · 30-03-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Even if his enemies did campaign against him, would Allah have let them succeed in blackening his name? "While they plot, he plots - and Allah is the best of those who plot." (Qur'anic translation)

It mentions his new Muslim name, which was ‘Aly (Ali) Napoleon Bonaparte’. He commends the conversion of his General Jacques Menou, who became known as General ‘Abdullah-Jacques Menou’, who later married an Egyptian, Sitti Zoubeida.

Napoleon did recognise the superiority of the Islamic (Shari'ah) Law - and did attempt to implement this in his Empire. Most of this, as one can imagine, has been removed/replaced by modern-day secular laws in France and other parts of Europe, but some aspects of the Islamic (Shari'ah) Law do currently exist in French constitution as the basis for some of their laws from the Code Napoleone. One publicised case was that of the fatal car accident with Diana, Princess of Wales, and Dodi Al-Fayed. "The photographers were charged with an old part of the French Jurisprudence, for ‘not helping at the scene of an accident’- which is taken from the Shari'ah Law of Imam Malik." (David M. Pidcock, 1998 C.E.)

Further detailed accounts of this can be found in the book 'Napoleon And Islam' by C. Cherfils. ISBN: 967-61-0898-7 [/b]

From a site.

Yes, bro david, is a good friend of mine. Very smart and compassionate brother and very talented.

ayqazi · 30-03-2005, 10:11 PM

Inshallah Allah will tell us the truth of what happened, Allah knows best

thehook · 30-03-2005, 10:24 PM

Insha-Allah, but there's another saying too, Allah don't change the condition of a nation until they change that which is within themselves, i.e., one needs to make the effort for knowledge just don't come to people like that, but one needs to put work in and go and get it.

Wassalaam

angel · 31-03-2005, 11:50 AM

im sorry if i sound thick

sometimes but i dont understand how the fact that Napoleone was muslim or not is going to help the sisters in france?

sunilight · 31-03-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel

im sorry if i sound thick

sometimes but i dont understand how the fact that Napoleone was muslim or not is going to help the sisters in france?

Salams
yes i agree
i think we need to get back on topic.........

Zinnia · 31-03-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunilight

salams
wow... i didnt know this!!!!!!
but i have heard the reason that the french are so scared of religion is cus they have been wrecked by religious wars for years and years...
and that the french would love to forget about all religions.....
which makes more sense now......

yes but sunilight that was over 200 years ago-surely they would have got over it by now?! i'm not saying they should forget their history especially their history in algeria but to think that a bunch of schoolgirls covering their heads will drag the country back into religious wars again is absurd! it shows they have a deep-rooted psychological fear and even hatred of all things islamic if they cannot cope with that then...! i mean wow! a hijab threatens secularism and they are the ones going on about enlightenment and rationality thru ideas and speech they can't even take a piece of fabric!
french ppl have a lot to answer for for their treatment of the algerians and this just demonstrates their complete arrogance and fear towards the ppl they slaughtered and destroyed.
algerians are supposed to get over their massacres which only occured a little while ago and are still going on courtesy of their former occupiers and the french have to be protected cos of theirs.
Hypocrites.
read www.blogistan.co.uk./blog he has done a really good piece on it.

thehook · 31-03-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

im sorry if i sound thick sometimes but i dont understand how the fact that Napoleone was muslim or not is going to help the sisters in france?

We can say with Black people in UK, and USA, that "I don't understand how the fact many Blacks were Muslims is not going to help them understand who they really are" in reality it does, its there history and who they are and were.

The only way one can help the sisters if you really want to help is start raising your voices and become politically active, and show how Muslim women with Hijab are making positive impact to all communities.

Secondly, find every sister who works in many fields and get them printed in the thousands i.e. a one of magazine and send them over to the sisters so they can bang em in each house cause for the life of me, many French people still don't know what Islam is, what it stands for.

They feel threatened cause of these politicians taking their brains in a doggy bag. So, yah really want to do something then great, let's get together and making it happen. Or are we gonna debate about it all through thread?

Wassalaam

Suhail · 06-04-2005, 08:21 PM

Unfortunatly i missed the programme
Does anybody know if it is going to repeat?

WhatNot · 06-04-2005, 09:36 PM

i dont think so suhail....someone might have recorded it..now depends if they will lend it

06-04-2005, 09:36 PM	#34
WhatNot Activist Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 219 Rep Power: 6	i dont think so suhail....someone might have recorded it..now depends if they will lend it __________________ Allow myself to introduce...myself!

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30-03-2005, 04:12 PM	#22
thehook Veteran Campaigner Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sheffield Posts: 3,247 Rep Power: 15	Ah, I'll do better Zinnia. I'll give you an email of a man who has researched, a Muslim of high clibre and fights with banks against fraud, interest and he has completed a book about Napolean and he wanted to set the record straight. He's got all the war document, memors and all sort and was surprised how everyone got it wrong and then travelled like others all over world, chasing information. If you go this web site Insha-Allah http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/ipb-archive/people/david.htm Book called Napoleon et l'Islam by Christian Cherfils, published in 1914, which chronicles Napoleon Bonaparte's conversion to Islam in 1798, leading to the Code Napoleon, the French civil law adaptation of Islamic law. David played a great part in it too. You can contact him and he'll sort a book out Insha-Allah. It was I think published a three years ago, don't know, but recently and powerful book it is. I read much of it cause I was typing much of it and then he sent it anbd it was published by a Muslim printers. There's a lot in the Internet but, one has to be carefully and research thoroughly. My love is history which is why I do a lot of research and even travel to countries, following leads after leads to get to the truth. The lead that got me to who Napolean really was, was not what many Muslims and Non-Muslims say he was. He had a lot of enemies, and a lot tried to infiltrate his work and do things to discredit him and say it was Napoleans work. But his memoris is his work and there is the real Napolean and in his letters and war documents and why he did this and that. It took years getting it, cause government wont let one have it until certain years went by and they have, which is how the Muslim on web site I gave you I think did but also he wasn't on his own to do work, there were other good people to getting it sorted. Hope that's helpful. Contact him and he'll sort you a copy. If am right, then its really me who should apologies for being harsh, not you. I broke a fundamental rule in dawah, so my apologies and Insha-Allah, may Allah forgive me for my arrogance and sincerley did wrong saying what I said when I went on about chanting etc. Find out Insha-Allah and wallahi, you will be surprised on the truth of it all. Wassalaam

30-03-2005, 05:33 PM	#23
Zinnia Activist Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 249 Rep Power: 6	Salam bro and JazakAllah i will defo contact him and get a copy IA and you were not harsh-you were perfectly right-lesson no 550 for zinnia: don't comment til you get all the facts! ps if you want to see harsh treatment look at how rabbit treated me in the saldin thread sob sob lol!

30-03-2005, 06:09 PM	#24
ayqazi Apprentice Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 90 Rep Power: 6	I don't want to argue about this. The quotes the brother gives about Napolean saying Islamic stuff fits in with his wanting to 'lull fanaticism to sleep before we uproot it.' As for the quote: "In Germany I told my friend Goethe about the facts I had gathered concerning Islam and added my personal reflections on the subject. After listening to me with attention, he said, 'If that is Islam, we are all Muslims'" He doesn't actually profess to becoming a Muslim. He merely tells his friend about Islamic beliefs he has picked up with his dealings with the Muslims. I don't regard this as unrefutable proof, but still I'll take your word on it for now. We must always study both points of view in detail before making a decision. Still, I judge Islam by character. Napoleon didn't have the charactistics of a Muslim at heart. Look at that Yasmin Alibhai Brown - she claims to have "become religious" - but are her secular-supporting writings characteristic of Muslims? She is from the innovationist Ismaili sect. She claims openly to taking part in rituals in her local "mosque" derived from Zoroastrianism. A Muslim? She claims to bea Muslim, but is she? But still, I'll take the brother's view on the subject that he proclaimed his conversion to Islam. To not do so would be arrogance, and I hate arrogance, whenever I feel it inside me, I seek refuge from Allah. Whether or not he was really a Muslim inside, I won't believe until I get more info on him, his charactistics are not that of a Muslim. Even if his enemies did campaign against him, would Allah have let them succeed in blackening his name? "While they plot, he plots - and Allah is the best of those who plot." (Qur'anic translation) I'll be sure to do more research on the topic, Jazakallah for the info, Asfand Yar p.s. If you get all those quotes on the web, what search terms do you use? I tried 'napoleon muslim' and 'napoleon convert islam' and I didn't get anything like what you did.

30-03-2005, 06:16 PM	#25
ayqazi Apprentice Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 90 Rep Power: 6	I saw a picture of David Musa Pidcock on the islamicparty.com website - I remember him, he appeared on Islam Channel in a talk show once. Cool!

30-03-2005, 10:11 PM	#27
ayqazi Apprentice Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 90 Rep Power: 6	Inshallah Allah will tell us the truth of what happened, Allah knows best

30-03-2005, 10:24 PM	#28
thehook Veteran Campaigner Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sheffield Posts: 3,247 Rep Power: 15	Insha-Allah, but there's another saying too, Allah don't change the condition of a nation until they change that which is within themselves, i.e., one needs to make the effort for knowledge just don't come to people like that, but one needs to put work in and go and get it. Wassalaam

31-03-2005, 11:50 AM	#29
angel Apprentice Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 0	im sorry if i sound thick sometimes but i dont understand how the fact that Napoleone was muslim or not is going to help the sisters in france?

06-04-2005, 08:21 PM	#33
Suhail Senior Activist Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Rep Power: 7	Unfortunatly i missed the programme Does anybody know if it is going to repeat?