They can opt out and face the consequences as many have done, they can leave the country before the time of conscription comes around...there is no excuse for joining a terrorist organisation - once you join you are a terrorist....everyone knows what the IDF has inflicted on the surrounded areas in the last 40 years, if you join and aid them, you are one of themOriginally Posted by fred
Fred
tossing stones is kids being kids - they are frustrated, downtrodden and they vent that frustration against what is visibly their tormentor...if you think by throwing stones they think they are winning a war then your mistaken, theyre kids who are acting like kids who are frustrated and have no hopePalestinian kids toss stones at Israeli tanks in an act of defiance.
That stone doesn't even scratch the paint on the tank so it's pretty much useless as any sort of weapon but I suppose it makes them feel a little better.
firstly this has been done - before the 1st intifada....it didnt stop israeli occupation and brutalisation, it just made it easier - also defending oneself is a natural human reaction...something you have said you would do if someone threatened your family - if someone came to hurt your daughter, would you stand their thinking "well this is wrong but maybe i shouldnt do anything as i want the western people think im not a terrorist and im gonna win the propaganda war"?Same goes for rockets into Israel and every other physical attack on that state.
You just aren't going to free Palestine or make Israel budge an inch if we continue with the old ways.
A new way has to be found and, given Israel is so ruddy good at exploiting the slightest bit of news for its propaganda machine, there must be no news for them to play with.
That means total cessation of all violence except maybe the kids slinging stones at tanks.
Israel sends in bulldozers - stand, heads bowed, with lowered Palestinian flags but no violence at all.
One gun fired at the Israelis means the Israeli government is clearing out terrorists.
Crying people holding their children shows what Israel is really doing.
of course not, its stupid, what type of human thinks like that - you certainly dont...you may think you "get it" with your solutions and ideas but all it shows to me is that you have no understand of what they are going through and no understanding of natural human reaction - you want an oppressed people to react in a way that you couldnt do yourself even though your not going through any of the difficulties they are
let me say this now - i agree with many points of mpacuk but jerusalem is not gonna be won by elections, emails and protests - your living in a dream world and i think alot of people here are dreamersThe press, what it says and what pictures it shows makes a real difference to public opinion.
Let's take a leaf out of a very successful Israeli book and use it to help the people of Palestine to get back what was stolen from them.
As I said before, any insult is OK by me except one that denies my faith, It took 45 years to get to Islam and I consider that 45 years a bit of a half existence.
However, those years did have some use as it gave me a real insight into what hate does to the hater.
As I took the trouble to understand other cultures, I saw the effects hate had on them and, as a previous "Bloke in the pub", saw the way the haters lived.
Frankly, the hated were better people regardless of what the haters had to say about them.
You may not agree with my ideas to free Palestine from the dogs in the Israeli government but to accuse someone with the same goal of being non Muslim, Jewish or whatever other dis-information you can invent in an attempt to discredit says a lot more about your extremism than it does about me.
Seems I can't even be Barnsley lad any more.
Sad your hate has taken you to such extremes.
The last person I heard with view similar to yours is dead now because he was shot by police in an anti terrorist operation. I can only offer prayer to the Almighty Allah your hate doesn't take you to murder and your own death.
Pity about that bloke. He was a nice guy, had a great sense of humour and always greeted me warmly.
Sadness was my overwhelming emotion when I heard of his crimes and death.
Sorry if the post is a little odd in some ways but I'm doing two things at once. One is see your silly accusations, the other is listen to various arguments as to how to punish Israel.
I disagree with the violence suggested by one groups as I can only see it leading to more misery for the people of Palestine as pretty much all previous violence has done.
There must be change if we want to see Palestine free but attacking our own will simply assist Israel.
The real world doesn't work that way and you know it.
Some kid, just of of high school, won't have the balls to tell his country to bugger off, knowing he'll go to prison for doing so.
While a member of the IDF, enslaved as many are, they are a legitimate target but, as long as they don't commit murder while a member, they hold no blame in my eyes.
Of course, those that shoot fire bombs into civilian housing areas, are clearly guilty and deserve anything that comes their way.
Orders are no excuse.
Yo mucker
I have no problem with these kids and hope I have a measure of understanding of their situation.
In fact, it's a good move in so much as it shows the Israeli government up for being the pigs they are.
Kids, so frustrated at their terrible situation, they feel being murdered by a tank crew while showing resistance to an invading force is better than living, says a lot.
I agree - That course of action would take massive courage and even more restraint.
I know, in a far smaller way, what it is to defend family from attack. Hardly a comparison but I was forced to defend a girlfriend from an attacker. my years in serious martial arts training served me well. He may have been taller and stronger but I had speed and ability.
One strike was enough to let him know he'd made a big mistake.
However, Israel is massively stronger and no single strike would so much as metaphorically scratch the paint on their country.
This war won't be won by petitions, emails, Galloway's gob or anything else we can do directly.
Only two real possibilities at the moment:
Make it impossible for America to operate by cause chaos with bomb threats with the odd real (Non-lethal) bomb to keep them on their toes and wait until they get the idea.
You'd have to make the whole of the US run every time some car backfired.
Not that hard but you'd have to have total security so the US would have no clue who to invade.
Any deaths would be counter productive as the US mentality would kick in.
Let nothing get into the press except Israeli crimes. That would mean no violence at all.
Both, in time, would change US government policy and that is the key.
I prefer the latter as the former is far too dangerous and so easy to cock up on.
How can you or any person who claims to be a Muslim have faith in a corrupt system whi ch has waged endless wars and injustice over the last few centuries? Where is your believe in Allah s.w.t. and his Shariah?
I cannot for one minute believe that the kuffar will bring justice to the Palestinians, the kuffar created the problem and have spent more than 60 years perpetuating it.
Unbelievable. Now the whole non-Muslim world is guilty.
In answer, not that you deserve one, you can't beat the system but you can manipulate it.
What do you propose to free Palestine?
Fred keep up to date with desert peace blog:
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/
I see Gunter Grass tried to appease the Jews today in the Guardian - it never works better to be proud of taking a moral stance and being banned like me and many others.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ed-from-israel
Thanks.
His words seem fair and without bias.
He admits his past fault and recants.
Israel has spoken and, in my humble opinion, made a prat of itself.
Exactly what Palestine needs to win a propaganda war.
Not seen any Iranian comment as yet.
Any links
The Iranian reaction was predictable.
"Gloating", would about sum it up.
However, they haven't made prats of themselves as the Israeli government clearly has.
I wonder why you even think winning the propaganda war is relevant? Writing poetry will not stop the occupation. You still seem to believe that the people have influence over governments, very misguidedly. Did hundreds of thousands taking to the streets stop the invasion of Iraq? Was it all based on flawed intelligence and lies? Is Bush or Blair in the Hague? Nothing will change in Palestine until the Muslims wake up and fulfil their obligations towards their brothers and sisters.
The United nations can do nothing the ICC can do nothing. You just don't get it do you? USA and UK are controlled by Jewish funding and Jewish lobby groups. There is no justice with man made law.
Easy enough.
At the moment, Muslims are the enemy of the world. That was created by the US of Arse or specifically, Bush, the arms dealing president.
US public opinion allows the US government to fund (arm) Israel with kiddie killing weapons because of that 'evil' Islam and because they know how naughty we Muslims are.
That gift of weapons costs the US a lot of cash but the US government is happy because of the jobs it creates and the bonus of congressmen being paid for their votes.
Nothing will change unless US public, or government, opinion is modified.
Public opinion is votes to keep the congressmen in their dirty dollars. That is hard to change while the 'pro zionist' media has stories of evil Muslims to print. However, their prime task is keeping shareholders happy and that means selling their services (Advertising). Any story will do as long as it's a headline that will shift the paper from the news stand.
Government opinion is different. That can only be change if there is more of a disadvantage, than an advantage to supporting something. That advantage is usually measured in votes and/or cash.
Neither will change with the status quo.
That being the case, we need a new tactic.
I've suggested a way. You have simply rubbished it but failed to suggest anything else.
It never had a chance.Did hundreds of thousands taking to the streets stop the invasion of Iraq?
Take a look who was on the streets and decide why it failed.
The reason it failed is not because the ones on the streets are the 1% or the great unwashed but because our government and other governments are funded by jewish business men and lobbied by pro Israel interest groups. They fight Israels wars for them by proxy. Iraq was no threat to world peace or the UK it was only a threat to Israel or so they perceived. The armies in the Middle East who are on the payroll of USA like the Egyptian one, or allies like the armies of the GCC are no threat to Israel in fact probably Syria was the only one and Iran.
You are very misguided if you believe for one minute that swaying public opinion will make a difference.
Next election we in the UK will still be voting for the three main parties which are all pro Israel and pro war.
The solution is when we remember we are Muslims and what are obligations are.
Perhaps you could be a bit more specific.The solution is when we remember we are Muslims and what are obligations are.
Are you suggesting prayer or something else?
Take one step to God....Perhaps you could be a bit more specific.
Are you suggesting prayer or something else?
As for the whole moral high ground, palestine didn't retalitate in the reason 'drone' strikes which were hardly reported but were still casitgated in the press for the 'rocket' attacks.
Going back to the flotilla, it was an act of piracy on cargo ships but it was reported as self defence by the idf.
Israel has over played it's own importance to western countries by self procaliming itself as a defendor against tyrannial iran and the methods used by israeli against 'terrorists' / children are commonly used by these governments in how they deal with 'terrorist threats' themselves.
The solution to this would be discontinued support from western governments who could use tax payers money on their countries and citizens and then seeing if israel can still play the bully without it's allies and flanked by increasingly non zionist neighbours.
I agree. The key to forcing Israel to pack in mass murder is in Washington.
Question is - How to turn the key?
An israeli attack on US interests would do the trick
Or if they found oil in palestine
@ fred
i agree with most the stuff u say that all jews cant be responsible for israel, but i def dont agree about palestinians not fightin back
they have to fight back, i would def have stones in my hand aswell,
u cant keep sittin back all the time and wait for other govts to help cos those govts are not on ur side, they are on the side of israel,
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