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Thread: Muslim cleric says women should not defy ban on veils

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    Default Saudi Muslim cleric says women should not defy ban on veils

    Muslim cleric says women should not defy ban on veils


    A popular Muslim cleric has said that women should forgo wearing the veil in countries where it is banned.



    While he criticised efforts in a number of European countries to outlaw the veil, Sheik Aedh al-Garni said that Muslim women should not challenge the ban in such nations at the risk of breaking the country's laws.



    His ruling, or fatwa, was published on Saturday in Saudi's Al-Hayat newspaper. The ruling was made in response to a question from a Saudi woman in France about how to respond to the recent vote in parliament to ban the full-face veil, or niqab. Governments in Spain and Belgium are also considering prohibition.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-2035005.html

    also see

    Two Saudi clerics have declared Muslim women are exempt from wearing full veils in France, which is planning to ban them, but added they should avoid visiting it as tourists.

    The comments, by Islamic jurisprudence scholar Mohamed al-Nujaimi and author and cleric Ayed al-Garni, come two weeks after French lawmakers passed a bill under which women could be fined for appearing in public with the all-covering burqa or the niqab, which leaves the eyes exposed.

    "For a woman who permanently resides in France or is a French citizen, if there is harm in wearing the veil ... it is permitted that she shows her face when need and necessity demand it," Nujaimi said in remarks published by al-Watan newspaper.

    Muslim scholars are divided over the veil, disagreeing on whether and how much of a woman's face should be covered. Saudi clerics widely recommend it.

    The kingdom is ruled by the House of Saud in alliance with clerics from the austere Wahhabi school of Islam who oversee mosques, the judiciary and education and run their own coercive apparatus, the morals police.

    Nujaimi and Garni are not members of the kingdom's official Senior Scholars Authority, which has not commented on the French parliament's decision.

    Tourism

    "Tourism to Western countries like France, while not forbidden, should be avoided in favor of Muslim countries where veils are allowed," the clerics said.

    Every summer, tens of thousands of Saudi holidaymakers leave the kingdom and its searing heat to spend their vacation abroad, with many travelling to European countries.

    "Tourism in a non-Muslim country is not indispensable, it is not needed, it is however allowed ... but we have a lot of touristic regions in our country and there are a lot of Muslim countries that do not ban the niqab," Nujaimi said.

    Saudi Arabia is a major U.S. ally that has close trade and political ties with France, home to Western Europe's largest Muslim minority of almost 5 million. It is thought that only about 2,000 women wear the full-length veil in France.

    The new law, which still has to be vetted by France's highest constitutional authority and approved by the Senate, could make France the second European country after Belgium to criminalize the veil.

    Saudi King Abdullah postponed a visit to Paris that was scheduled to start one day before the French parliament voted on the ban, although Saudi officials did not link this postponement to the vote.

    Comments by the two clerics come as the Louvre museum in Paris -- with the support of the Saudi government -- is displaying hundreds of artefacts from Saudi Arabia that have never been exhibited before, either at home nor abroad.

    Among them are many pre-Islamic items. Exhibiting them in the kingdom would have triggered uproar from many clerics in the kingdom, who would see in it a revival of idolatry.http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...rance-1.303952
    Last edited by dark_knight; 25-07-2010 at 03:58 PM.

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    this niqaab ban is freakin' useless

    what will they ban now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dark_knight View Post
    this niqaab ban is freakin' useless

    what will they ban now?
    Muslims maybe?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rie_Maya View Post
    Muslims maybe?!
    What really bothers me about the bans on niqab and minarets is that this could well be the thin end of the wedge. Once this type of thing is done, it becomes easier to move on to something else. A bit here - a bit there, until everything is banned!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Abdullah View Post
    What really bothers me about the bans on niqab and minarets is that this could well be the thin end of the wedge. Once this type of thing is done, it becomes easier to move on to something else. A bit here - a bit there, until everything is banned!
    Sadly this seems inevitable when there is no "plan" made clear re long-term intentions beyond the current liberating women etc!

    Perhaps worse is that there ARE no matter how much these are refuted, direct comparisons that can be drawn between pre-World War II Europe nd the treatment of Jews, gypsies, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Abdullah View Post
    What really bothers me about the bans on niqab and minarets is that this could well be the thin end of the wedge. Once this type of thing is done, it becomes easier to move on to something else. A bit here - a bit there, until everything is banned!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rie_Maya View Post
    Sadly this seems inevitable when there is no "plan" made clear re long-term intentions beyond the current liberating women etc!

    Perhaps worse is that there ARE no matter how much these are refuted, direct comparisons that can be drawn between pre-World War II Europe nd the treatment of Jews, gypsies, etc.
    spot on.

    I think what needs to happen is Muslims need to show people the comparison of treatment of Jews etc pre WW2 and see how the nazis used the propaganda to finally do what they did.

    The german population did not suddenly wake up one day and thought 'hhmm, i think we'll get rid of the jews...' but it was a long drawn out process by the nazis where they used various techniques to imprint the psyche of the population and create hatred of the jews.

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    and maybe the Muslim women need to come out and back the women who wear the niqab instead of joining the bandwagon of 'it's only cultural etc etc'.

    WE muslims are sometimes our worst enemies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENIGMA View Post
    and maybe the Muslim women need to come out and back the women who wear the niqab instead of joining the bandwagon of 'it's only cultural etc etc'.

    WE muslims are sometimes our worst enemies...
    Exactly, ............

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENIGMA View Post
    spot on.

    I think what needs to happen is Muslims need to show people the comparison of treatment of Jews etc pre WW2 and see how the nazis used the propaganda to finally do what they did.

    The german population did not suddenly wake up one day and thought 'hhmm, i think we'll get rid of the jews...' but it was a long drawn out process by the nazis where they used various techniques to imprint the psyche of the population and create hatred of the jews.
    This is true and I believe that today Radio 4 are doing a program on the "Muslim Battalions of the SS":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3ybj

    I wonder if there will be a balanced program explaining that more Muslims fought against Hitler than for him, some how I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENIGMA View Post
    and maybe the Muslim women need to come out and back the women who wear the niqab instead of joining the bandwagon of 'it's only cultural etc etc'.

    WE muslims are sometimes our worst enemies...

    Exactly....i may end up doing that...wearing a full burkha, niqab, gloves...the full works just to prove that no one is forcing me to wear this except those who want to ban the islamic attire!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENIGMA View Post
    and maybe the Muslim women need to come out and back the women who wear the niqab instead of joining the bandwagon of 'it's only cultural etc etc'.

    WE muslims are sometimes our worst enemies...
    I agree - I have been appalled when I have listened to the female Muslim spokeswomen discuss this issue... rather as expected, not one has, to my knowledge, stated that no they do not believe/follow the school of thought that says it is not obligatory but they support those that do believe it to be...

    Nor has anyone stated that often the reason the niqab could possibly be deemed cultural is due to the popularity of certain madhabs in certain cultures, meaning that those which find niqaab obligatory obviously would have greater numbers of women wearing it....


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