Have we failed

[saladin1970.5]

The plans for Gaza by the west and its cohort israel is to have a gaza controlled at the egyption border by turkish and french soldiers. Who are there to make sure no arms are smuggled in.

so no trade route independent of israel and egypt
to be disarmed so that Israel can invade, and bomb at will with no resistance.


This is apparently the so called cease fire agreement.

[EesilaA]

turkish soldires?
can u explain what turkish soldires do?

[saladin1970.5]

turkish soldires?
can u explain what turkish soldires do?

they will police the border gazza/egypt and stop arms coming into gazza

[Reason]

So Turkey and France are the one who stepped in to put their soldiers on the ground and keep Israel out eh? Good for them.

[saladin1970.5]

So Turkey and France are the one who stepped in to put their soldiers on the ground and keep Israel out eh? Good for them.

no, tht is the problem. They will be monitoring the egyption/gazza border not the israeli/gazza border.

so israel will still go in at willl and slaughter women and children

[Reason]

Well then, I suppose they are going to need more soldiers from other countries to go in then and take over the Palestinian-Israeli boarder.

Perhaps I'll send an e-mail off to the PM to suggest that...although I doubt we have many to spare.

[Goalshan602]

Have we failed? The plans for Gaza by the west and its cohort israel is to have a gaza controlled at the egyption border by turkish and french soldiers. Who are there to make sure no arms are smuggled in.

so no trade route independent of israel and egypt
to be disarmed so that Israel can invade, and bomb at will with no resistance.


This is apparently the so called cease fire agreement.

Who's "we"?
What do you mean by "failed"?

[saladin1970.5]

the we is the ummah,and anyone else who supports palestine

and the failed is that , if the ceasefire agreement is implemented, gaza would have lost so much but have acheived little change

still under occupation, still controlled, still stateless, but this time no infrastructure and no arms to defend itself

[IM99]

no, tht is the problem. They will be monitoring the egyption/gazza border not the israeli/gazza border.

so israel will still go in at willl and slaughter women and children

Ridiculous. Hamas is just as guilty as Israel for every drop of Palestinian blood spilled. You always give them a pass however..

Israel wants a third party force to keep arms (that you and i both know will be used against Israel, lets not kid ourselves) from being smuggled in. I guess Israel should just allow Hamas to get bigger/better guns? What do you suppose will happen if Hamas gets missiles that reach further? Israel will freak out and the next attack will be ten times worse.

Not liking Israel and not respecting their military power are two different things. Really i think Hamas and Israel are ready to end this thing, however we have Iran in the background now fighting a proxy war with Israel.

Palestinian blood is on more than just Jewish hands....

[Duncan]

In 2002, tens of thousands came out in support of Israel's aggression in the West Bank:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1970028.stm

Police estimated more than 30,000 people attended the Israel Solidarity Rally in Trafalgar Square.

This time round:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7822656.stm

Police said they estimated 4,000 people are at the event in central London. Organisers say 15,000 people have turned up.

Far fewer people are willing to go out and support Israel this time. That is a good cause for optimism.

Israel will pay a cost for this. No amount of clean up will remove the memory or the pictures of the massacre it has conducted.

[iraniboy]

Ridiculous. Hamas is just as guilty as Israel for every drop of Palestinian blood spilled. You always give them a pass however..

Israel wants a third party force to keep arms (that you and i both know will be used against Israel, lets not kid ourselves) from being smuggled in. I guess Israel should just allow Hamas to get bigger/better guns? What do you suppose will happen if Hamas gets missiles that reach further? Israel will freak out and the next attack will be ten times worse.

Not liking Israel and not respecting their military power are two different things. Really i think Hamas and Israel are ready to end this thing, however we have Iran in the background now fighting a proxy war with Israel.

Palestinian blood is on more than just Jewish hands....

If you're a Muslim, you're alone with your thought. We exactly know who has killed hundreds of kids and women in Palestine and who support it!
If you're non-Muslim, there are many non-Muslims including Jews, Christians, Atheists who don't think like you. I'm proud that Iran helps Hamas, otherwise Gaza was already fully demolished in the first day of the war!
Palestinians blood is not on Jewish hand. It is on Zionists hand and on so-called Muslims hand who closed their borders and air space to humanitarian aids to Gaza.

[IM99]

If you're a Muslim, you're alone with your thought. We exactly know who has killed hundreds of kids and women in Palestine and who support it!
If you're non-Muslim, there are many non-Muslims including Jews, Christians, Atheists who don't think like you. I'm proud that Iran helps Hamas, otherwise Gaza was already fully demolished in the first day of the war!
Palestinians blood is not on Jewish hand. It is on Zionists hand and on so-called Muslims hand who closed their borders and air space to humanitarian aids to Gaza.

Im not alone in this line of thinking whether im a Muslim or not. I see plenty of Muslims and non-Muslims angry with Hamas. Iran helping Hamas has nothing to do with why Gaza is not demolished. Israel could just carpet bomb the whole strip. Where is Iran now? Sending "supplies" over fronting as humanitarian aid when they are probably more rockets so they can continue fighting their proxy war against Israel at the expense of the Palestinians. It dosen't make me a "zionist" to call a spade a spade.

Hamas will never be part of the solution for the Palestinians. I have seen countless threads about the wrong Israel commits, why nothing about the rockets Hamas shoots while standing next to schools? Why nothing about the human shields strategy? There are pictures and videos from previous conflicts of both Hamas and Hezzbollah employing these kinds of strategies. This is about the Palestinians and their suffering right? So lets rightly condemn all those who contribute to it.

[iraniboy]

Im not alone in this line of thinking whether im a Muslim or not. I see plenty of Muslims and non-Muslims angry with Hamas. Iran helping Hamas has nothing to do with why Gaza is not demolished. Israel could just carpet bomb the whole strip. Where is Iran now? Sending "supplies" over fronting as humanitarian aid when they are probably more rockets so they can continue fighting their proxy war against Israel at the expense of the Palestinians. It dosen't make me a "zionist" to call a spade a spade.

Hamas will never be part of the solution for the Palestinians. I have seen countless threads about the wrong Israel commits, why nothing about the rockets Hamas shoots while standing next to schools? Why nothing about the human shields strategy? There are pictures and videos from previous conflicts of both Hamas and Hezzbollah employing these kinds of strategies. This is about the Palestinians and their suffering right? So lets rightly condemn all those who contribute to it.

Not really. The vast majority of Muslims support Palestinians and their vote AKA Hamas. Only Arab dictators don't like them because their masters have told them to be so! US is supporting Israel. Does US want a proxy war against Palestine? No they help Israel because Israel is their uncoditional ally. We support democraticaly elected Hamas because Palestinians are our friends. If some so-called Muslim leaders don't help Hamas, it is due to their illegal leadership. They may loose their dictatorship and monarchy if west back them off. Like I said before Palestinians suffering started and expaned long before the existance of Hezbullah, Hamas, any Palestinians, Lebanese rocket!!!

For Anti-Iranian people like, the fault of Hamas is just that they are helped by Iran! For hypocrite Muslims ,everyone who is helped by Iranians are automatically bad.

[IM99]

Not really. The vast majority of Muslims support Palestinians and their vote AKA Hamas. Only Arab dictators don't like them because their masters have told them to be so! US is supporting Israel. Does US want a proxy war against Palestine? No they help Israel because Israel is their uncoditional ally. We support democraticaly elected Hamas because Palestinians are our friends. If some so-called Muslim leaders don't help Hamas, it is due to their illegal leadership. They may loose their dictatorship and monarchy if west back them off. Like I said before Palestinians suffering started and expaned long before the existance of Hezbullah, Hamas, any Palestinians, Lebanese rocket!!!

For Anti-Iranian people like, the fault of Hamas is just that they are helped by Iran! For hypocrite Muslims ,everyone who is helped by Iranians are automatically bad.

I never denied Palestinians suffered before there was a Hamas or Hezbullah, this is not a new situation. As for Hamas being Democratically elected, that is up for debate. What happened to all the Fatah members? Being a westerner i can attest to some of the reasons why people see Iran the way they do. When you have a president denying the Holocaust took place and calling for Israel to be wiped off the map it tends to get people fired up. You can see from the conflict going on now, and the one that happened in Lebanon, and in 67...blood is not going to solve this. While the west and ME pick and choose sides the Palestinians suffer. What solution do you propose, im interested to know?

[iraniboy]

I never denied Palestinians suffered before there was a Hamas or Hezbullah, this is not a new situation. As for Hamas being Democratically elected, that is up for debate. What happened to all the Fatah members? Being a westerner i can attest to some of the reasons why people see Iran the way they do. When you have a president denying the Holocaust took place and calling for Israel to be wiped off the map it tends to get people fired up. You can see from the conflict going on now, and the one that happened in Lebanon, and in 67...blood is not going to solve this. While the west and ME pick and choose sides the Palestinians suffer. What solution do you propose, im interested to know?

We're not talking about Iran I really don't care what an annonymous account think about Iran. I interact with many non-Muslim westerner and I know why they don't know about Iran. It is all about lack of information. But you're just an Anti-Iranian. You seem more like a Wahabi westerner. All the non-Muslim westerners I met had different attittude. They really don't care what is Fatah or Hamas!!

[IM99]

We're not talking about Iran I really don't care what an annonymous account think about Iran. I interact with many non-Muslim westerner and I know why they don't know about Iran. It is all about lack of information. But you're just an Anti-Iranian. You seem more like a Wahabi westerner. All the non-Muslim westerners I met had different attittude. They really don't care what is Fatah or Hamas!!

Anti-Iranian? Not even close. Lack of information? Please let me know why it was ok for your president to make remarks about the Holocaust and "wiping Israel off the map" ? You are right about most westerners not caring about Fatah or Hamas. Most only care about what they are going to put on their iPod. I wanted to learn about the ME, the wars, the tensions, so i joined forums and read books. I do my best to read both sides. I read about the British mandate, Peel Commission and so on. Im aware of the Palestinian suffering going way back long before there was a Hamas.

From what i have learned i doubt sincerely the legitimacy of the elections putting Hamas in power. Its not just me, a westerner who blames Hamas for a lot of this. There are plenty of Muslims who blame Hamas for this current conflict as well. When i bring this up it just gets written off as "they are puppets for the west".

[saladin1970.5]

I never denied Palestinians suffered before there was a Hamas or Hezbullah, this is not a new situation. As for Hamas being Democratically elected, that is up for debate. What happened to all the Fatah members? Being a westerner i can attest to some of the reasons why people see Iran the way they do. When you have a president denying the Holocaust took place and calling for Israel to be wiped off the map it tends to get people fired up. You can see from the conflict going on now, and the one that happened in Lebanon, and in 67...blood is not going to solve this. While the west and ME pick and choose sides the Palestinians suffer. What solution do you propose, im interested to know?

lets prove it im99, have a vote on who now conisders themselves hamas on this forum. or who blames them

Because zionazi has just been charged with Genocide by the UN.

So the zionazi are actually wiping the map of palestine.

They are the scum of the earth and so is everyone that supports.

They are my enemy and they are the enemy of every muslim in the world

The arrogance to think that 15 million jews could commit this massacre without accountability.

[iraniboy]

Anti-Iranian? Not even close. Lack of information? Please let me know why it was ok for your president to make remarks about the Holocaust and "wiping Israel off the map" ? You are right about most westerners not caring about Fatah or Hamas. Most only care about what they are going to put on their iPod. I wanted to learn about the ME, the wars, the tensions, so i joined forums and read books. I do my best to read both sides. I read about the British mandate, Peel Commission and so on. Im aware of the Palestinian suffering going way back long before there was a Hamas.

From what i have learned i doubt sincerely the legitimacy of the elections putting Hamas in power. Its not just me, a westerner who blames Hamas for a lot of this. There are plenty of Muslims who blame Hamas for this current conflict as well. When i bring this up it just gets written off as "they are puppets for the west".

You keep repeating yourself about Ahmadinejad's comment about Israel which is wrong. Israel has threatened Iran more than Iran has done. Not only Israel threaten, but also implement those threats. For example they had called for a holocaust in Palestine now they have killed hundreds of kids and women and it is continued.
The election which led to election of Hamas was PRAISED by Ms Rice!! So you're not in position to doubt about it!
There are plent of Muslims or EVEN non-Muslims who blam Hamas for current crisis. You just need to put aside hypocrisy to see that Israel's aggression against PAlestinians is regradless of Hamas existance. Palestinians' fault is that they are Arab and they live in Palestine. It the same fault that Jews had in Europe during WWII!!

[Soldier-of-Light]

ok lets take this to town.

Yea hamas are using tunnels to smuggle over little weapons to help DEFEND themselves from the artificial state who is claiming to 'defend' itself.

Well if that is what you call defending then what the hell is attacking?

How bout hamas get supplied weapons over the counter eh? Kind of like the way Israel are?

Hamas as far as we know have been democratically elected by the palestinian people..

we could go into conspiracy theories but lests just stick to the facts, and lets stick to palestine and not iran or any other country at that.

Because if we all did that IM999 or watever, then i could say 'George Bush definately won Florida fair and square' hm?

those rockets are like a bunch of heedless chickens floatin about the place with something like a 0.4% chance of killing someone.

The high tech war israel is using is precision attacking, now killing at least 1000 palestinians many of them women and children not to mention eldrerly.

If we relate that to america for example..proportionatley that would equate to 120,000 dead and over a million bady injured. would america stand for that?

these western thickos say half of us are radicals..extremists..

can you blame them for what is going on?

think b4 u speak.

[Simmons Victory]

[QUOTE=saladin1970.5;597094]The plans for Gaza by the west and its cohort israel is to have a gaza controlled at the egyption border by turkish and french soldiers. Who are there to make sure no arms are smuggled in.

so no trade route independent of israel and egypt
to be disarmed so that Israel can invade, and bomb at will with no resistance.


This is apparently the so called cease fire agreement.[/QUOTE



Yes you are correct. The ceasefire only benefits israel. The israeli's want the ability to terrorize the Palestinians without fear of armed retaliation. The international forces will try to halt supplies to Hamas . Yet will have no ability to stop any israeli terror. The west & the arab states are complicit in this strategy. This is why Hamas rejects the ceasefire but how long can they resist?

The outcome in Lebanon was similar. The buffer zone in southern Lebanon only benefits israel. Hezbollah's ability to capture israeli soldiers & exchange them for Lebanese prisons (many women & children) has been dented. The buffer zone however has not managed to remove the threat of Hezbollah missiles. israel can yet again terrorize whenever they wish to.