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Thread: Terrorists

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    Default Terrorists

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    This is great news that the police and security force have disrupted a potential terrorists plot.

    If they are guilty, and we dont know yet. Then they deserve very long sentances with no parol.


    We support the authorities 100% in their efforts to apprehend terrorists and criminals intent on causing death and mayhem on the public, and they have the cheek to say they are doing this in the name of Islam


    This is a lie, this criminal behaviour has nothing to with Islam, Muslims and our Prophet (saw)

    What Muslims must do.


    1. Prevent any extremist wahabi/salafi preachers from preaching in any mosque, university, madrassah or islamic society.

    2. Condemn with the utmost condmenation the acts of these criminal people making it clear that the Islamic jurists are clear that this is not a noble act but an act of terrorism and murder. And any person particpating, encouraging or undertaking such an act is a coward, murderer and criminal. This needs to be done clearly so that no one is left in any doubt that these people are murdering low lives and not heros of any shape or description.

    3. Facilitate orthodox scholars access to the Muslim masses, such as Imam Zaid Shakir, Imam Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Abdullah bin Bayah, Shaykh Habib Ali Jifri, Shaykh Peer Naseerudeen, Shaykh Ibrahim Mugharah, and many many others.

    4. Muslim groups and organisation need to make collective statements putting aside sect and madhab to make clear the Islamic position on the matter.


    I believe that the battle for Muslims is to reclaim our faith from terrorists.

    This is more important than protesting againts cartoons and films by islamaphobes

    Non -muslims can see these are childish drivel but it is more difficult for them to seperate the acts of terrorism by people who claim to be muslims.

    This is and should be our number one priority.

    all muslim groups and sects need to come together and do a joint statement condemning these people as criminals and murderers.




    __________________________________________________________________


    Men 'planned airliner explosions'

    Eight men planned to detonate bombs aboard flights from London across the Atlantic to create deaths on an almost unprecedented scale, a court has heard.

    Homemade devices were to be smuggled on to passenger aircraft and detonated mid-flight, Woolwich Crown Court heard.

    Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the men planned to inflict heavy casualties, "all in the name of Islam".

    The eight men all deny conspiring to murder others and endangering aircraft bound for the US and Canada in 2006.

    After their arrests in August 2006, airport security was massively tightened in the UK, causing long delays at major airports.

    Mr Wright told the court: "These men were, we say, indifferent to the carnage that was likely to ensue.

    "Some of the men you see in the dock are those who were prepared to sacrifice their own lives."

    Mr Wright said two of the men were watched by police as they met in Walthamstow on 9 August, 2006.

    "The disaster they contemplated was not long off," he said.

    EIGHT ACCUSED MEN
    TOP ROW OF PICTURE (L-R):
    Abdul Ahmed Ali, 27
    Assad Sarwar, 24
    Tanvir Hussain, 27
    Mohammed Gulzar, 26
    BOTTOM ROW (L-R):
    Ibrahim Savant, 27
    Arafat Waheed Khan, 26
    Waheed Zaman, 23
    Umar Islam, 29

    "They were prepared to board an aircraft with the necessary ingredients and equipment to construct and detonate a device that would bring about not only the loss of their own lives but also all of those who happened by chance to be taking the same journey."

    Mr Wright said Mr Ali, Mr Sarwar and Mr Gulzar were the main men behind the plot.

    "Unfortunately for these men, but to the considerable good fortune of those that were their intended targets of those devices, their activities had come to the attention of the police," he said

    He said from what police had observed "it was realised that these men, together with others, were engaged in some sort of terrorist plot".

    A computer memory stick recovered by police contained details of flight timetables, baggage information, security advice and other information about Heathrow airport, he said.

    The jury heard the information focused on only one-way flights leaving Heathrow between August 2006 and August 2007.

    The planes were destined to fly from London to cities across North America, including Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco, Chicago, New York and Washington, the court heard.

    The seven daily flights highlighted from Heathrow's Terminal 3 were:


    1415 United Airlines Flight 931 to San Francisco
    1500 Air Canada Flight 849 to Toronto
    1515 Air Canada Flight 865 to Montreal
    1540 United Airlines Flight 959 to Chicago
    1620 United Airlines Flight 925 to Washington
    1635 American Airlines Flight 131 to New York
    1650 American Airlines Flight 91 to Chicago
    Mr Wright said there was evidence that the men planned to bring down more planes than just those seven.

    The jury heard the main ingredient of the explosives would have been hydrogen peroxide mixed with other organic materials.

    The liquid explosive would have been injected in to 500ml plastic bottles of soft drinks Oasis and Lucozade, Mr Wight said.

    A sugary drink known as Tang would be mixed with the solution to add power to the explosion, he continued.

    Mr Wright told the court the devices would be detonated using a substance called HTMD, concealed in AA 1.5-volt batteries.

    He said of hydrogen peroxide: "It is capable of being detonated to deadly effect, as previous terrorist incidents have demonstrated."


    It is alleged the explosives would have been injected in to drinks bottles

    The jury was shown pages from Mr Ali's handwritten diary which make apparent references to how the bomb materials would have been got on to the aircraft.

    Mr Wright said the bombers would have used a syringe in the base of the bottles to insert the explosive material.

    The detonator would have been ignited using a metal wire, a small bulb or the flash from a disposal camera.

    The defendants are Abdul Ahmed Ali, aka Ahmed Ali Khan, 27, of Walthamstow, Assad Sarwar, 24, of High Wycombe, Tanvir Hussain, 27, of no fixed address, and Mohammed Gulzar, 26, of Barking.

    Also charged, are Ibrahim Savant, 27, of Walthamstow, Arafat Waheed Khan, 26, of Walthamstow, Waheed Zaman, 23, of Walthamstow and Umar Islam, aka Brian Young, 29, of High Wycombe.

    The trial, which is expected to last eight months, was adjourned until Friday.




    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7328892.stm
    Last edited by Saracen; 03-04-2008 at 07:41 PM.

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    Heres what I say to these psychopaths, if they want to kill innocent people to make a statement, why dont they round up their own friends and family members and blow them up???
    why bother going to all that length to blow up other peoples families???

    because they are disgusting low lives.

    Their families do not deserve to be harmed obviously and neither does any body elses family members.

    Blowing innocent people going around minding their own business shopping, traveling, or whateve.....this is from which religion??? This is from shaytan.

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    Oh deary deary me....

    Looks like our poster above "Saracen" seems to have busted a gasket.

    Not one single thing has been proven, that is why there is a court case just beginning today.

    All the activities they have been ALLEGED to have carried out, are just that, ALLEGATIONS unless they can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court room.

    Of the 24 odd people arrested in higly sensationalised arressts in August 2006, these are the only 8 they have "reason to suspect"....or after 6 months of searching woodland close to the apparent bomb making factory the met have been able to build a case on these individuals.

    Nevermind the fact the tip off for all the arrests made came from a british pakistani arrested (and no doubt tortured) in pakistan, who has subsequently escaped from prison and is currently on the run in pakistan (no....you really couldn't make this up)

    Are you aware that one of the accused was freed with all charges against him dropped last december, after spending 17 months locked up in belmarsh for no reason?

    We all know the media sensationalise matters...thats there job, but for you to carry on the way you are is highly irrational.

    I even saw on newsnight that the key ingredient in making the bomb was a packet of "Tang" orange juice drink.

    I had trouble believing the failed 21/7 bombers used chappati flour bombs.....but tang.....it just keeps getting more and more ludicrous.

    Last edited by ImmortalTechnique; 03-04-2008 at 11:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalTechnique View Post
    Oh deary deary me....

    Looks like our poster above "Saracen" seems to have busted a gasket.

    Not one single thing has been proven, that is why there is a court case just beginning today.

    All the activities they have been ALLEGED to have carried out, are just that, ALLEGATIONS unless they can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court room.

    Of the 24 odd people arrested in higly sensationalised arressts in August 2006, these are the only 8 they have "reason to suspect"....or after 6 months of searching woodland close to the apparent bomb making factory the met have been able to build a case on these individuals.

    Nevermind the fact the tip off for all the arrests made came from a british pakistani arrested (and no doubt tortured) in pakistan, who has subsequently escaped from prison and is currently on the run in pakistan (no....you really couldn't make this up)

    Are you aware that one of the accused was freed with all charges against him dropped last december, after spending 17 months locked up in belmarsh for no reason?

    We all know the media sensationalise matters...thats there job, but for you to carry on the way you are is highly irrational.

    I even saw on newsnight that the key ingredient in making the bomb was a packet of "Tang" orange juice drink.

    I had trouble believing the failed 21/7 bombers used chappati flour bombs.....but tang.....it just keeps getting more and more ludicrous.


    lol

    yeah maybe I a blew a gasket.......

    but if you read I have said IF they are found guilty and it has not been proven.

    and I knew someone would come with the line that 'but they are innocent'

    well that maybe true but dont you think the existence of Muslims who have undertaken terrorism and threaten to carry to terrorism is real enough??

    Muslims continously denying the reality of terrorism and trying to come with far fetched conspiracy theories does us no service.

    all it means is that we ignore the reality of the problem.

    putting aside my gasket, do you think that all this terrorism is a figemant of our imagination?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalTechnique View Post

    I even saw on newsnight that the key ingredient in making the bomb was a packet of "Tang" orange juice drink.

    I had trouble believing the failed 21/7 bombers used chappati flour bombs.....but tang.....it just keeps getting more and more ludicrous.

    I think you are in denial the evidence that the terrorists 21/7 were guilty was conclusive.

    The 7/7 made a video admitting their crimes.

    are you still going to deny the reality?

    These are very veil and dangerous criminals.

    They need to be apprehended and locked up.

    you are you family could have been on those planes or buses.

    so please dont belittle the seriousness of the intent of these criminals.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/email_news/6634901.stm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    lol

    yeah maybe I a blew a gasket.......

    but if you read I have said IF they are found guilty and it has not been proven.

    and I knew someone would come with the line that 'but they are innocent'

    well that maybe true but dont you think the existence of Muslims who have undertaken terrorism and threaten to carry to terrorism is real enough??

    Muslims continously denying the reality of terrorism and trying to come with far fetched conspiracy theories does us no service.

    all it means is that we ignore the reality of the problem.

    putting aside my gasket, do you think that all this terrorism is a figemant of our imagination?
    there is no need for any conspiracy theories we all know why it is happening, and just in case you dont, it is because of the interventions we have made in afghanistan and iraq and the wholly lack of intervention in the palestinian dispute.


    now as to whether the plot is real or not .. todays reporting isnt for the purpose of getting at the truth but to provide the government and its media hacks to maintain the security alert.

    and as far as im concerned the only reason we have more laws is for what may happen in iran and our intervention increasingly in pakistan (you should follow what the usa and uk are wanting to do there)

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    People like Immortal technique deny the reality of terrorist muslims, its understandable, it is almost incomprehensable for anyone whos what Islam is, to then associate with mindless violence.


    The suspected terrorists in this case have made sucide videos, 9are you still denying?) and they have stated their motivation is revenge.

    Well thats clear then revenge has nothing to do with Islam so they were acting on their own vengence and not according to Islamic rules and regulatiosn.

    'Revenge'

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court was played parts of one of the martyrdom videos featuring a man said to be defendant Umar Islam, who was shown speaking of a desire to kill non-Muslims.

    "We are doing this in order to gain the pleasure of our Lord, and Allah loves us to die and kill in his fires," he was heard saying.

    He was shown describing his plans as "revenge" for the actions of the United States and its "accomplices such as the British and the Jews".


    The 'airliners plot' allegations
    Videos: What they said

    "This is a warning for the non-believers that if they do not leave our lands there are many more like us and many more like me until the law of Allah is established on this earth," he went on.

    He was then heard warning: "Martyrdom operations upon martyrdom operations will keep on raining on these kuffars [non-believers] until they release us and leave our lands."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7330330.stm

    Lets be clear once again, carrying out mindless acts or violemce is terrorism, it is an act of huge cowardice, it goes against every single moral parameter stated in the Quran and Sunnah and the consensus of the companions.

    Muslims must condemn people who do this as the cowards and murderers they are.

    The case is continuing, if they are found guilty they need to spend a very very long time in jail.

    The morality of these people is no different from israels treatment of Palestinians and US attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dontask View Post
    there is no need for any conspiracy theories we all know why it is happening, and just in case you dont, it is because of the interventions we have made in afghanistan and iraq and the wholly lack of intervention in the palestinian dispute.
    Well at least that establishes that the plots are real. Thanks for that.

    As for why the violent events are happening, it's not because of interventions Britain and the USA have made in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is no reason why such interventions have to produce a violent reaction. The violent events are happening because the perpetrators think it's the right thing to do. If they didn't hold their violent beliefs, there would be no bombings. So we know what the real reasons are.

    Quote Originally Posted by dontask View Post
    now as to whether the plot is real or not .. todays reporting isnt for the purpose of getting at the truth but to provide the government and its media hacks to maintain the security alert.
    As I pointed out above, you've already conceded that the plots are real by giving your idea of why they took place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John O Hart View Post
    As for why the violent events are happening, it's not because of interventions Britain and the USA have made in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is no reason why such interventions have to produce a violent reaction. The violent events are happening because the perpetrators think it's the right thing to do. If they didn't hold their violent beliefs, there would be no bombings. So we know what the real reasons are.
    what did mohammed siddique khan, the ring leader of7/7 say, in his video... did he say we did this for:

    1) as we don't like the british way of life
    2) we hold violent beliefs so we do this..

    or did he says

    3) or because british foreign policy - intervention in iraq and afghan. - bombing my ppl, occupating muslim lands....etc....etc..

    The 7/7 bombers told us why they did it - so why in denial and pretending it is nothing other than that.... ppl like you are just the same as the conspiracy theorist - your conspiracy theorist is fining reason other than why these terrorist do these acts...

    Now wake up and stop denying the reason why they carried out these atrocities..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post

    3) or because british foreign policy - intervention in iraq and afghan. - bombing my ppl, occupating muslim lands....etc....etc..
    ..

    Do you think it is understandable to bomb a London train carrying civilians because of the Invasion of Iraq?

    If not what do you think it is that has caused these people to make an unjustified attack on civilians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post
    what did mohammed siddique khan, the ring leader of7/7 say, in his video... did he say we did this for:

    1) as we don't like the british way of life
    2) we hold violent beliefs so we do this..

    or did he says

    3) or because british foreign policy - intervention in iraq and afghan. - bombing my ppl, occupating muslim lands....etc....etc..

    The 7/7 bombers told us why they did it - so why in denial and pretending it is nothing other than that.... ppl like you are just the same as the conspiracy theorist - your conspiracy theorist is fining reason other than why these terrorist do these acts...

    Now wake up and stop denying the reason why they carried out these atrocities..
    Do you think they had to spell out they didn't like the British way of life as part of their justification to murder 50 fellow citizens (although, of course, they didn't discriminate who they were, what their religion was, what they believed in etc, etc).
    The sheer nihilism of what they did and others like them is breathtaking in its stupidity.
    For you to even begin to suggest there was some noble cause involved is so, so sad and just underlines how far we still have to go over this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post
    3) or because british foreign policy - intervention in iraq and afghan. - bombing my ppl, occupating muslim lands....etc....etc..
    And what is the basis of this objection to the foreign policy? What is the common chord that arcs from these dimwits to the others across the globe who carry out such acts? What is the prime mover, the raison d'etre?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUREL View Post
    Do you think it is understandable to bomb a London train carrying civilians because of the Invasion of Iraq?

    If not what do you think it is that has caused these people to make an unjustified attack on civilians?
    It is not justified for you and me but it is justified for some. If you like to reslove the problem you should remove the "cause" which is what illuminate said .
    Do you think it is understandable that one million innocent Iraqis and Afghanis are killed because some idiots have killed 50 civilians in UK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUREL View Post
    Do you think it is understandable to bomb a London train carrying civilians because of the Invasion of Iraq?

    If not what do you think it is that has caused these people to make an unjustified attack on civilians?
    the reason why all ppl have trurned to terrorism - ppl must realise terrorism is nothing new.... terrorism has always existed...

    The 7/7 bomber mention why he did it.....

    top of my head, I see two things has caused them to carry out this act... (1) seeing the USA/UK and israel doing the same - time after time - eventually this was going to come home to roost.....you can't go around the world bombing ppl, you don't make friends - you bring out resentment, hatred and so on.... (2) bring about change in geo-politics and foreign of the west.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post
    what did mohammed siddique khan, the ring leader of7/7 say, in his video... did he say we did this for:

    1) as we don't like the british way of life
    2) we hold violent beliefs so we do this..

    or did he says

    3) or because british foreign policy - intervention in iraq and afghan. - bombing my ppl, occupating muslim lands....etc....etc..

    The 7/7 bombers told us why they did it - so why in denial and pretending it is nothing other than that.... ppl like you are just the same as the conspiracy theorist - your conspiracy theorist is fining reason other than why these terrorist do these acts...

    Now wake up and stop denying the reason why they carried out these atrocities..
    Well he says his motivation is Allah. He doesn't mention Iraq or Afghanistan at all in the video. He spends about one min being vague about other lands without being specific and then spends about four mins quoting from the Koran encouraging other Muslims to 'take the path of jihad'; the path that he's taking...killing and death.

    He also talks about conquering lands by not paying attention to the laws.

    He talks about Toyotas and Semi-Detached houses more than Iraq.

    Does this mean he is 20% motivated by foreign policy and 80% by Islam?

    See for yourself:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NQU740rlCzY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post
    the reason why all ppl have trurned to terrorism - ppl must realise terrorism is nothing new.... terrorism has always existed...

    The 7/7 bomber mention why he did it.....

    top of my head, I see two things has caused them to carry out this act... (1) seeing the USA/UK and israel doing the same - time after time - eventually this was going to come home to roost.....you can't go around the world bombing ppl, you don't make friends - you bring out resentment, hatred and so on.... (2) bring about change in geo-politics and foreign of the west.

    I have to say I know a LOT of non muslims who are every bit as passionate as you about the Iraq Invasion. None of them thought 7/7 was justified.

    The common thread in those who think that this kind of action is justified over iraq seems to be Islam. Which is unnaceptable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUREL View Post
    Do you think it is understandable to bomb a London train carrying civilians because of the Invasion of Iraq?

    If not what do you think it is that has caused these people to make an unjustified attack on civilians?
    The reason why the do it because the west has established the idea of colleteral damage.


    It doesnt make sense of course it doesnt but the reason they do it is because of the injustices they see and the murder of innocent people in Iaq, palestine and afghanistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUREL View Post
    I have to say I know a LOT of non muslims who are every bit as passionate as you about the Iraq Invasion. None of them thought 7/7 was justified.

    The common thread in those who think that this kind of action is justified over iraq seems to be Islam. Which is unnaceptable to me.
    who siad it was justified???????????????????

    we stating the reason why these people commit terrorism

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    Quote Originally Posted by yorkshire observer View Post
    Do you think they had to spell out they didn't like the British way of life as part of their justification to murder 50 fellow citizens (although, of course, they didn't discriminate who they were, what their religion was, what they believed in etc, etc).
    The sheer nihilism of what they did and others like them is breathtaking in its stupidity.
    For you to even begin to suggest there was some noble cause involved is so, so sad and just underlines how far we still have to go over this issue.
    terrorist don't have an issue with the british way of life - they lived in britain and born here.... if they hated the west way of life - they would be targeting, sweden, norway and countries like that - as they are more liberal then USA/UK - again you and denial...wake up.. It is not to do with the way of life...

    Off course these atrocities are breathe taking, I fine them no different to state sponsored terrorism, who drop bombs from 1000's of feet and kill civilians - for me it is the same... I fine them both breathetaking - I fine it more shocking how the regularly killing of civilians by allied forces, is being kept out of the media....Shocking...

    Finally, don't put words in my mouth - terrorism has no noble cause - Like I keep saying bush invasion of iraq was state sponsor terrorism, so is the planting of bombs on plane, trains and buses.... It is all the same to me..... Both lot of ppl, who support/sympathise and make pathetic excuse's for bush/blair and binny - atrocities are all as bad as each other - I see no difference between them...

    Like I say to islam radicals, who make excuse's to binny (al-qaeda) - they are the same as bush/blair - and likewise, those who support and sympathise with bush/blair polices on Iraq/afghan. - they are the same as al-qaeda supporters/sympathiser - I see no difference between them - they are two cheeks of the same backside - The sooner ppl say enough is enough - we are neither with either of you, the better of the world will be...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminate View Post
    the reason why all ppl have trurned to terrorism - ppl must realise terrorism is nothing new.... terrorism has always existed...

    The 7/7 bomber mention why he did it.....

    top of my head, I see two things has caused them to carry out this act... (1) seeing the USA/UK and israel doing the same - time after time - eventually this was going to come home to roost.....you can't go around the world bombing ppl, you don't make friends - you bring out resentment, hatred and so on.... (2) bring about change in geo-politics and foreign of the west.
    So the cause of murdering innocent people of all faiths, colours, backgrounds and beliefs was justified because of foreign policy?
    You really just don't get it, do you? You must really think that those Muslims who talk about extremism, how it works, what the game plan really is are just part of the grand conspiracy theory so often espoused on here.
    Open your eyes Illuminate.

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