Blacks and Asian marriages
I just come back from our Muslim meeting that we normally have on Sundays and one of the issues we discussed was RACISM within Mulisms.It came about afrter one of the Muslim brother who happens to be black in our group married a Muslim sister of Pakistni Origin and it has caused alot of uprear in her family as they wanted her to be married to a brother fromPakistan.
We know the Prophet married women across ethnic lines, and therefore, in Islam, there is no ethnic bar to marriage. He also made it very clear, in his last Khutba, that superiority in Islam is not based on blackness, whiteness, Arabness or the lack of it.
Contrast this with, for instance, the Hindu caste system, under which inter-caste marriage is prohibited.
Sadly, such Hindu notions still influence a number of ignorant Muslims in South Asia who will not, for instance, marry outside if they are Syed (claim lineage to the Prophet), Shaikh (a business community) or across tribal lines if they come from the "Khans," "Moghuls" or "Jats".
While some Muslims may justify this as simply a measure to ensure compatibility between husband and wife, it is Islamically incorrect to discriminate upright Muslims on this basis.
Now Personally I wouldnt mind marying any one as long as she is a Muslim and I would like to get more over view from others on this matter
Wa alaikum assalam brother Taufiq,
What you have mentioned is something quite common and demonstrates Jahiliyah in the 21st century. The Islamic position on this is quite clear and I don't think I need to go into the evidences.
You have rightly said that some Muslims (esp. Pakistanis/Indians/Bengalis) try to justify their racism by citing 'compatibility'. To me, a Pakistani sister married to an Afro-Carrebian brother, both of who are religious and speak English is more compatible than a practicing sister married to a but-but-ding-ding-299 who has no religious inclinations.
O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa (piety). Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.
May Allah guide us all.
What the brothers have mentioned is a sad reality. There is such negativity attached to mixed-race marriages. An example: my Pakistani friend is married to an Afro-Caribbean brother. They have been happily married for over 4 years now alhamdulillah and have a young child. Since the day they married, her parents have not made contact with her at all. My friend has made several attempts to connect with them again, but no go. Definate Jahiliyah.
"Of His signs is this: that He created for you spouses that you might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy." (Quran, 30:21)
dont you think these are some of the things that will take us to jahanam and i find it hard sometimes to explain to some brothers and sisters when they ask me whats wrong? is it the colour of the skin or something else?
I mean it goes beyond marriage it also occured in my local masjid..imagine Friday khutba was all in URDU..after that even DUAH was in urdu, afterthat announcements were all in Urdu sometimes I always have to make a 2 hour journey to find a masjid where they speak Arabic or English
Alhamdu lillah, all Masjids are open to all people and no Masjid has racial policies. However, racially divided neighborhoods result in an ethnically dominant Masjid type. Usually, negative attitudes of some and language specific Masjid programs cause miscommunication. someone said that this is because some people want to make sure their mother tongue survives in the west!
I know this is a thorny issue but I believe its worth discussing after all our religion is not racist my we have racist tendencies that i believe make a huge negative in our Iman
I see where you are coming from. I think it all boils down to lack of knowledge and ignorance.
"The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." [Muslim]
It's sad that people are failing to understand that Islam is not just for Pakistanis or Arabs. And you're right, this issue needs addressing. In some parts of the country more than others! For example, my local masjid does the Friday khutba in Arabic, English and Urdu. Alhamdulillah.
The prophet (saw) said "An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man was not better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam's children and Adam was created out of clay." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Musa]
I love this hadith, it's so powerful. But it's not appreciated, that's the problem
Just had a brainwave: maybe we should go on Islam channel and have an hour slot, so we can educate the ummah???
Originally Posted by AfroMuslim
Allah hu alim.
It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said,
"He is not one us who calls for Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who
fights for Asabiyyah or who dies for Asabiyyah."
there is no nationalism in islam, we are all equal, we are children of adaam (as) we can marry anyone one of any colour.
this is like the syed issue....
Originally Posted by abdulmojid
Shame not everyone thinks like that!!!!!
i was wondering if this was an older-generation thing or if 0-40yrs thought like this too..
i mean i have heard firends say this about their elders but never heard anyone my own age agree with them
inshallah this strange tradition will die out soon in the uk..
what do you think?
I have heard accounts similar to Muslima Alhamdulilah's i definitely think there is a lot of racism among various Muslims groups esp south Asians but its not only a colour thing many Pakistani parents woudl be aghast if there children married outside the family (cousin marraige so prevalent) or even the caste let alone race!! and much of it is their opposition to their children doing their own thing, choosing their own spouse, parents cannot bear to lose control like that...they think it is shameful that children did not adhere to them completely.....at least this is the experience i've had from my extended family, indeed my parents get so much flak cos they are different and unwilling to marry into the family or impose arranged marriages on their children...they are considered too modern! Bascially i think marrying into other races cultures is good thing Allah made us into nations and tribes so that we may know each other, ishallah we will get passed the jahil mentality of those who disagree. i would have been happy to marry a African/Chinese/White etc brother as long as he was Muslim and that is always what my parents said too.
i TOTALLY agree with you there. within a few decades, this will not be an issue. it definately stems from culture/traditions from people who have moved to the UK, rather than have been born here. not to say that all think this way, but it's definately the older generation.
Originally Posted by sunilight
Just to add a little spice.....
Just to heat up this discussion, i hope to get peoples views on the following bearing in mind racism is haram for or against any race, positive or negative racism:
1) What about the section of practising muslim sisters (in my experience) who specifically want to marry black brothers just to make a point, not for thier taqwa, or personality. This will lead them to possibly not be so favourable to any other brother. I know this from sisters I know, who wanted a 'trophy' husband. I think this is immature, and can lead to disasters because of lapse in checking of taqwa. Isn;t this racism too?
2) What about some practising paskitani sisters who don't want to marry any pakistani "bacause they are backward in thier mentality". Isn't this racist too? These types usually go out looking for a non-asian trophy husband.
3) What about the racism in some of our non-practising sisters, who in thier non-Islamic lifestyles always seem to go for anything but Pakistini, or Muslim? The non-muslim men end up "Converting" usually for the family (but not giving up any old haram habits). If you are not racist, you don't avoid certain races in choice of boyfriend. Many asian sisters are racist against thier own race, naieve about the negative traits in others, and obsessed with the negative traits in thier own, that they obviously are more aware of.
4) Some of the non-practising sisters that do have some foresight & look for muslim boyfriends, still look for non-south-asian muslim boyfriends because they are acutely sensitive to all "typical asian" tendenceis in asian guys. The danger is that not only is it a form of racism, which is typical asian itself, (these sisters who are not practising usually think they are not "typical asian" girls, and are liberated) hence making them typical asian girls, but also those "typical asian" traits they hate so much in "typical asian" guys, you will find analagous bad traits in all races. So for example, arabs guys have thier "typical arab" traits too, which arab girls hate, but the asian girls don't know or understand so well, so cannot be wary of, & fall for these "typical arab" guys without realising that they manifest "typical arab" traits, because they were too busy avoiding "typical asain" traits.
I find that some my asian sisters rightly or wrongly seem to be obsessed with avoiding asian things, and some seem to be obsessed with everything asian, there is very little balance. Sorry if I am stereotyping, but I did qualify my statement with "some asian" sisters, not all.
interesting post Hope...I havent had the same experience of sisters out for trophy husbands...but i have heard plenty saying they would not marry a FOB or freshie as they are far too backward and typical and the sisters are too 'coconut' so i think there is a lot of british-born and non-british born prejudice even when non-british guys maybe educated professionals not only out for a passport...but then again i caught a little bit of vecton tv on and their was a matrimonial show on that tha the adverts were so blantant all the folks in Pak wanted was someone with a british passport never mind any other criteria!!
I didn't have non-british born asians in mind
I didn't have non-british born asians in mind when I worte my post, Im talking about asians who are raised in the UK. I suppose my experience is limited to more well off asians, and asians whose parents are from east-africa.
i know you didnt i just meant i havent come across what you say but i have come across a lot of non-british born prejudice, ie i dont want to marry a freshie with an accent attitude.
Maybe there's that unspoken thing, that some Asian women want a black man for the same reason many white women do...
After all, even practicing Muslims are susceptible to the same desires as everyone else!
In regards to the racism issue, is it the blackness they don't like or the culture? I mean Asians don't seem to have ay dislike for Somalians, who's culture is obviously a conservative Muslim culture, but would they may well be afraid of the Afro-caribbean culture which reverts' families would bring them into contact with.
IslamicHope and Raashid, you have made some very interesting points. I can honestly say that I have come across some practicing sisters who do not want to marry anyone but black brothers! This often comes in the way of marrying for reasons of piouty etc.
this is happening as we have lost our islamic identity, as muslims we are all equal.
south-asian people are propably the most racist people EVER
abdulmojid is 100% about the first part.
We shouldn't even have to ask "What do you think?"
Racism is no part of Islam.