Galloway attacked

[Ali-Gation]

:grumpy:
http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/18034715?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5



George Galloway was attacked last night by a group of militants who have been angered by his invasion of Bethnal Green and Bow:

Mr Galloway was electioneering on the Osier council estate in Bethnal Green last night when a gang of 30 Muslim fundamentalists, who claim voting is un-Islamic, surrounded him and his supporters.
____


If it was the same group as the monkeys theat attacked MCB , then it's
http://www.thesavioursect.org.uk/about.htm

http://images.thisislondon.co.uk/v2/news/muslimPA190405_450x290.jpg

its Omar Bakri Mohammed's sucessor organisation to the now-disbandeded Al Muhajiroun, run by Anjem Choudary. :indiff:

[outsider]

salaams

Not sure where the Eving Standard get their news from but they mistakenly stated HT was behind the attack on Mr Galloway. THis is incorrect.

See the thread on Muslim Unity...but basically it was the same guys who disrupted MCB yesterday at PRM mosque. Busy guys huh??!


ws

[IslamicHope]

I would wait, see & hear both sides before we start doing what the sensationalist press do, against people that don't hold the same opinions as us.

It would not surprise me if this event is used cynically by certain quarters to malign a group they don't like, when that group weren't responsible for the incident.

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan - hafidahullaah - relates:

"Allaah - the Majestic, the Most High - orders us to verify any news that reaches us concerning a group or party from amongst the Muslims, when an evil news reaches us which necessitates fighting or opposing this group. Allaah - the Mighty, the Most High - orders us not be hasty and rush into this affair, until we have verified the matter. Allaah - the Most Perfect - said:

"O you who believe! When a Faasiq comes to you with some news, ascertain and verify it, less you harm someone in ignorance and then afterwards regret for what you have done." [Soorah al-Hujuraat 49:6]

Meaning: If some news reaches you about a group or party from amongst the people, concerning an action that they have done and which deserves to be fought against, then do not be hasty about the matter, nor announce war against them, nor attack them - until you have verified the authenticity of the report."1

Imaam Muslim relates in his Saheeh (no.5):
Abu Hurayrah radiallaahu 'anhu relates that the Prophet sallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "It is enough to render a man a liar that he relates everything he hears."

Shaykh 'Alee Hasan al-Halabee said:
"The daa'ee (caller) must be careful in everything, particularly with regards to what he hears from people, or what he reads in books. So it is an obligation upon him to check and verify everything which reaches his ears or eyes, before spreading it and circulating it amongst the people. His carefulness will be increased with regards two cases: Firstly, when what is being conveyed to him is connected to the Deen and the Sharee'ah, such as something being quoted as a hadeeth, or a fiqh ruling, and its like. Secondly, If someone reports something bad about a person, or an evil word from someone. He must check it correctness, carefully find out the reality and what is correct, and not hasten to transmit it and add it to the stream of news!"2

1. Wujoobut-Tathbbat fil-Akhbaari wa Ihtiraamil-'Ulemaa (pp.22-23).
2. Arba'oon Hadeethan fid-Da'wah wad-Du'aat (p.63).

From the Islamic Academy:

Q. How many kinds of "Mu'min" are there?
A. There are two kinds of "Mu'min" i.e. "Mu'min Saaleh" and "Mu'min Faasiq". Mu'min Saaleh is the believer who not only believes in Islaamic faith from the botton of his heart and with the tongue but also follows "Shari'ah" practically and generally does not transgress "Amr-o-Nahee" (the commands and prohibitions of Allah and His Prophet) and "Mu'min Faasiq" is that believer who firmly believes in all "commands of Shariah" but does not generally practise them,

Who is called "Faasiq-ul-'Aqidah"?
"Faasiq-ul-Aqidah" is he who claims to be a Muslim but his beliefs are inimical to Ahl-as-sunnah wal jamaa'ah (Orthodox Sunni Islam) creed. Such person is called misguided, or transgressor.

Disbelievers are worse than the above two, as they reject the Shahadah.

I notice that according to reports George Galloway himself is pointing fingers at HT without checking!

[outsider]

salaams

Sorry i forgot someppl here do actaully like to have some evidences presented to them...


"Mr McKay said he believed the gang was linked to the disbanded al-Muhajiroun group and those thought responsible for storming a Muslim Council of Britain press conference earlier yesterday."

Mr McKay is Mr Galloway's spokesman.
Quoted from http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4426220

ws

[IslamicHope]

Although I abhor Al-Luniyoon, I have it on good authority that it was the other way around in terms of violence.

1) Looniyoon storm meeting
2) Looniyoon shout various things, and protest "Kafir" "Shirk" etc etc
3) Looniyoon did disrupt the meeting, caused problems, but were not commiting serious acts of violence, but did provoke anger
3) Muslim supporters of Galloway attacked looniyoon weilding knives etc, and it broke out into a fight, where one looni (Abdul-Rahman?) is now in hospital with minor injuries (Astaghfirullah!)

Muslims backing Galloway, apparently from YM or YMO / East London Mosque linked supporters were carrying knives and have temporarily hospitalised a looni. (la hawla wa la quwatta illah billah)

Notice how the press have reported only one side? Why is there no mention of galloway supporters with knives attacking a heckler? Why is a Muslim heckler always labelled a "Militant" etc, accused of carrying out "Extremist attacks", but when a mad socialist does it he is involved in "protest", or "Direct Action"??

This is sad, and despicable on multiple accounts:

(1) Al-looniyoon rudely disrupt, and provoke anger at meeting

(2) Muslims defending a socialist, non-MUslim who shook hands with saddam, violently attack al-looniyoon muslims who would love to shake hands with Usama bin Laden. This is also very wrong, despite the looni heckling

(3) George Galloway a master in media soundbites, & the right-wing zionist press together siezed the oppurtunity, not to expose the truth, but to pin a one-sided "militant attack" story on hizb-ut-tahrir who had absolutely nothing to do with it! LOL! This is ridiculous.

Heckling is long standing tradition in Islam, and in Democracy, and Muslims backing any group (in this case backing Galloway) should not resort to the violent attacking of the brothers (be they looni or not) in response to heckling. If you are in politics, expect people to throw eggs at you, and heckle. Look what happened to John Prescott!

[IslamicHope]

Galloway accuses Hizb ut-Tahrir to avoid Saturdays debate The Evening Standard carried today a piece which quoted George Galloway the Respect Party candidate for Bow and Bethnal Green. The article (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/18034715?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5) accuses members of Hizb ut-Tahrir of attacking Galloway after a campaign meeting. He states,

"I was meeting people who live in the flats. Hizb-ut-Tahrir suddenly filled the room and blocked the door. I tried speaking calmly. They then said I was parading as a false prophet and served a sentence of death on me. They were claiming I was representing myself as a false deity and for this apostasy I would be sentenced to the gallows," he said.

"They said they were setting up the gallows for me. Thank God my daughter was not with me. She was in the car outside. Otherwise there would have been nobody to call the police. The police saved my life."

We are appalled by the article and the accusation and utterly reject it as a fabrication and a slander against the good name of the party.

It is well known that Hizb ut-Tahrir views the Respect Party, like all UK political parties, as political opportunists that present one face to the Muslims and another to their other constituencies. Respect has removed references to being a “Socialist” party from material distributed in Muslim communities. It has obscured its views towards rights for homosexuals including those that express Muslims cannot reject homosexuals that wish to be Imams or teachers in Islamic schools.

It is our belief that George Galloway knows very well that it was not members of Hizb-ut-Tahrir that were involved in the incident he mentioned and that he has orchestrated these fabrications in order to malign the Party which is strong in the Bethnal Green constituency, where he is hoping to secure his seat and political career.

This was confirmed when we spoke today to the Respect Party office. They readily admitted that another group was behind the attack and not the Hizb. Furthermore even the Respect Party followers in Tower Hamlets who contributed to yesterday's brawl have all acknowledged that the opposing group was not the Hizb. So why the deliberate lies?

It is clear that George Galloway, like Oona King, fears the challenge of Hizb-ut-Tahrir particularly in the debate this Saturday and is trying to malign the party on the above pretext. It is also clear that
our positive campaign to present an alternative to the dirty tactics of these political parties has affected Galloway's campaign across the country. In Birmingham, for example, Muslim community members have refused support to Galloway after hearing of their policies and ideals.

A concerned member of the public spoke to the police earlier today and they also acknowledged that the Hizb was not involved in the incidents yesterday. The Respect Party is uncharacteristically quiet today, despite multiple attempts to contact them. We have contacted our legal team and they will be issuing legal proceedings against Mr Galloway today unless he makes a public apology for his statements.

[b]Actions:

We would like you to ring the Respect Party head office and politely express your concern at what Mr Galloway has said on: 020 8980 3507. Please remember to express your concern in an Islamic way. Islamic politics is based upon adab not the dirty tricks exhibited by Galloway and other western politicians.

[IslamicHope]

Press Release: George Galloway and the Evening Standard Newspaper Hizb ut-Tahrir Launches Legal Action Against George Galloway and the Evening Standard Newspaper

London, UK, April 20 – In response to erroneous allegations in today's Evening Standard by George Galloway, the global Islamic political party Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain has commenced legal action. George Galloway has viciously alleged that Hizb ut-Tahrir was involved in an attack that took place on him. The Evening Standard article was entitled "Hate mob attacks Galloway" and appeared on the front page of the newspaper.

Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain is appalled by the article in the Evening Standard and the allegations levelled against the party by George Galloway. We reject outright the suggestion that the party or its members or supporters, had any role whatsoever in an attack on Galloway. Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain is an Islamic intellectual and political entity that seeks to change people’s thoughts solely through intelligent discussion and debate. In discussions with concerned members of the Muslim community, the police authorities have also confirmed that Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain had no involvement in these events.

Dr Imran Waheed, a UK based doctor and the Representative of Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain, said, "Hizb ut-Tahrir will not tolerate the malicious lies of George Galloway or the poisonous words of the Evening Standard. We will not accept anything other than a complete apology by both parties and will not hesitate to use legal action if necessary."

"Galloway's Respect Party admitted in a telephone conversation this morning that they were aware that Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain was not involved in these events, yet continue to propagate these lies. Like Oona King, it seems that fearing this Saturday's debate in London where he will debate with the leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain, Galloway has made this cheap, Machiavellian attempt to malign our organisation. Our positive campaign to present an alternative to the dirty tactics of these political parties and the corrupt electoral process has damaged Galloway's ailing campaign and his pursuance of such tactics is a case in point."

[Ends]

Notes to Editors:

[abdulmojid]

salaam islamichope

jazakallah!

and abdurrahman is in hospital? :shock:

[IslamicHope]

I thunk it was abdur-rahman, not sure, ask the looni

[abdulmojid]

I thunk it was abdur-rahman, not sure, ask the looni

looni? :nono:

yes it was abdurrahman, some guys followed him and beat him up, and inshaallah the perpetrators will get thier cumupence of the day of ahkirah.

galloways muslim friends had knifes on them, and they were the ones who were more threatening, they are the ones who called for backup! they were the ones acting like gangsta's!

:nono: :nono: :nono:

[br ash]

Had these fools not gone in the first place and started to threaten other people, nothing would have happened.


These loonies have not even got one ounce of faith to demonstrate out side a BNP meeting. Why is that? :D:D:D

Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

Had these fools not gone in the first place and started to threaten other people, nothing would have happened.


These loonies have not even got one ounce of faith to demonstrate out side a BNP meeting. Why is that? :D:D:D

Salaam


Ash

bruv, you dont know nothing! u think these brothers have not clashed with bnp? and theaten other people? nothing would have happened? whats more threatening? words or a knife?

and bruv, u question their faith? if you had an ounce of faith you would not question theirs, rather you would find out what happened first before you open that gob of yours.

theres something about slander and you isnt there bruv.

[abdulmojid]

and bro, i aint questioning your faith yea

[br ash]

bruv, you dont know nothing! u think these brothers have not clashed with bnp? and theaten other people? nothing would have happened? whats more threatening? words or a knife?

and bruv, u question their faith? if you had an ounce of faith you would not question theirs, rather you would find out what happened first before you open that gob of yours.

theres something about slander and you isnt there bruv.

If these nutters had clashed with BNP, BNP would responded. And there would have been riots.

When you shout words, like DEATH. That’s is a threat. People react. Only the most stupid people would do that, and that is what your nutters have done, far as i am concerned, the book should thrown at your nutters who were disturbing the peace, and every one else is the innocent party.

Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

whos book? your queens, or allahs?

bruv, i asked you:

whats more threatening? words or a knife?

[br ash]

whos book? your queens, or allahs?

bruv, i asked you:

whats more threatening? words or a knife?

Brother only idiots go around threatening people. If people do that, they deserve what they get.

Now if these people went for a discussion, and were behaving in a peaceful manner and they were attacked, that is indeed a different situation.

Therefore these brothers nutters, your mates, DESERVED what they got.


Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

Brother only idiots go around threatening people. If people do that, they deserve what they get.

Now if these people went for a discussion, and were behaving in a peaceful manner and they were attacked, that is indeed a different situation.

Therefore these brothers nutters, your mates, DESERVED what they got.


Salaam


Ash


2:190
And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors

the 'nutters' used words, they used a knife to threaten, and fists to attack.

so islamically ash, did they 'deserve' what they got?

[br ash]

2:190
And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors

the 'nutters' used words, they used a knife to threaten, and fists to attack.

so islamically ash, did they 'deserve' what they got?

Brother only idiots go around threatening people and using ABUSIVE LANGUAGE. Is this Islamic Behaviour? NO

If people do that, they deserve what they get.

Now if these people went for a discussion, and were behaving in a peaceful manner and they were attacked, that is indeed a different situation.

Therefore these brothers nutters, your mates, were not behaving in a Islamic manner, FACT, therefore they DESERVED what they got.


Salaam

Ash

[nishath_786]

Funnily enough, on the same day that this happened, I met a group of young lads while out campaigning. They told me it was kufr to vote etc. I asked them if they were from HUT, and they said no. They did not have nice words to say about any politician. They were perfectly polite and let me carry on my work with the words "Think about it" ringing in my ears.

Later that day, I saw pictures of the attack on Iqbal Sacranie and recognised the same lads.

I'm not sure if it was the same group that attacked Galloway (I doubt it myself having seen the video of the attack) but it's strange how I got a totally different reaction.

[br ash]

Funnily enough, on the same day that this happened, I met a group of young lads while out campaigning. They told me it was kufr to vote etc. I asked them if they were from HUT, and they said no. They did not have nice words to say about any politician. They were perfectly polite and let me carry on my work with the words "Think about it" ringing in my ears.

Later that day, I saw pictures of the attack on Iqbal Sacranie and recognised the same lads.

I'm not sure if it was the same group that attacked Galloway (I doubt it myself having seen the video of the attack) but it's strange how I got a totally different reaction.

Were they abusive to you? Nope

Secondly Are these Saviour and ilk Abusive, the answer is yes.

Have they been abusive by calling fellow Muslims Kufar, the answer is yes.

Have HT member gone into University calling feloow Muslims Kufar, the answer is yes.

Have they shouted abused fellow Muslim sister with their abuse, the answer is yes. Saying that there are some HT, who still follow the good manners there parents have taught them, but then there are HT and there ilk who taken to the Manner of some of there leaders.

Therefore it is conclusive that these abusive people, were abusive with the language they used.


Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

Brother only idiots go around threatening people and using ABUSIVE LANGUAGE. Is this Islamic Behaviour? NO

If people do that, they deserve what they get.

Now if these people went for a discussion, and were behaving in a peaceful manner and they were attacked, that is indeed a different situation.

Therefore these brothers nutters, your mates, were not behaving in a Islamic manner, FACT, therefore they DESERVED what they got.


Salaam

Ash

bruv, u still did not proove to me how they 'deserved' it. did they deserve to get beaten up? cmon, these people are your brothers, do you beat on them? even exAM brothers (no matter how 'extreme' you think they are) dont go and beat people.

and that ayat i qouted, supposedly it only applies to the kaffir, so im sorry for using that.

[Basayev]

Salam

^What are the chances that Br ash's answer has the words "nutters" or "loonies" aswell as maybe "HT" , "comics" and of course the main word itself , "ilk" ?

:D

[IslamicHope]

Br Ash uses every oppurtunity he gets to attack, malign, slander, and lie against HT, even though Ht had nothing to do with this, and do not go around saying people are kafir.

The reason for his animosity is because he is:

a) A conservative party supporter, and I think he said he is a member

b) He loves general, president, head of NSA, Chief executive, dictator, enlightened moderator, privatiser Busharraf. He adamantly defends Busharraf, and his policies, though bt ash claims to be a democrat at the same time??

The conservative party, and Musharraf, and there "ilk" of loonies, support the killing of people, not just calling them kafir, so I wonder who i would rather have dinner with...HT or Musharraf & the tories......

I disagree with HT, but they have never called me kafir, and I have never heard them call anyone esle kafir, and their leaflets or leadership are the same, though a bit boring at times....

HT have been on Islam Channel many times discussing with non-Muslims, and with pro-voting muslims, debating, but they have always maintained a good manner, the MCB & MAB have begun to realise that there is a big difference between the extreme wahabi's and the Sunni HTs (who are shafi'i school of thought) My experience with HT in the arab world of HTs is very good, although I disagree with afew things

[br ash]

bruv, u still did not proove to me how they 'deserved' it. did they deserve to get beaten up? cmon, these people are your brothers, do you beat on them? even exAM brothers (no matter how 'extreme' you think they are) dont go and beat people.

and that ayat i qouted, supposedly it only applies to the kaffir, so im sorry for using that.

If people behave like stupid idiots, they deserve what they get, no matter who they are. I am not a racist i do not give preference to any one.

They behaved in a reasonable manner, they should be treated with respect.

Now had they behaved, and they were attacked, i would be attacking their attackers.

These fellow Muslim brothers of ours have behaved like Monkeys, I have very little respect for Monkeys. I never have and i never will. Therefore the conclusion is they deserved what they got.



Salaam


Ash

[br ash]

Br Ash uses every oppurtunity he gets to attack, malign, slander, and lie against HT, even though Ht had nothing to do with this, and do not go around saying people are kafir.




Sister HT members have gone around calling fellow Muslim Kafir. 5 years ago that was standard practice, in the Universities.

Also members of HT call Muslims Kafir, heard the words come form there mouths, and the last time was about 8 months ago.

You get the HT monkeys stopping calling fellow Muslims Kafir, i will stop attacking them HT and there ilk. I can’t be more reasonable than that.


Salaam

Ash

[br ash]

Br Ash uses every oppurtunity he gets to attack, malign, slander, and lie against HT, even though Ht had nothing to do with this, and do not go around saying people are kafir.



Sister in the Public BNP puts up an acceptable face, so that the public accepts them.

As we all know, in closed meeting and interaction within local communities, they spill of racist comments.


HT is no different, its public face is one thing, but when interacting with fellow Muslims HT members are a different thing.

Yes there are HT members who do not call fellow Muslims Kafirs, like you i met the odd one, most likely we know the same individuals:D:D:D

Salaam


Ash

[br ash]

Islamichope said He loves general, president, head of NSA, Chief executive, dictator, enlightened moderator, privatiser Busharraf. He adamantly defends Busharraf, and his policies, though bt ash claims to be a democrat at the same time??


I do not love Musharraf, he is just the right man at this time. That is all. He has done a much better job than any elected idiot from Pakistan over the last 20 years and more.

Had he not, i would have been attacking Musharraf.

Pakistan is a corrupt nation, the level of corruption that Pakistan has, it can not function properly as a democracy. You need some one with metal rod, who is not a afraid in using it, to reduce that corruption. Mushraff has.

The irony is Government of Pakistan is more corrupt than the business corrupt. I am not saying that the business community in Pakistan is not corrupt, it just happens to less corrupt.

Therefore it is very logical, to let lesser corrupted business running Privatised Industries.

I prefer democratically elected Pakistan, Inshallah, with in 10 years Pakistan will be in this position. Saying that I am not a Pakistani.




Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

If people behave like stupid idiots, they deserve what they get, no matter who they are. I am not a racist i do not give preference to any one.

They behaved in a reasonable manner, they should be treated with respect.

Now had they behaved, and they were attacked, i would be attacking their attackers.

These fellow Muslim brothers of ours have behaved like Monkeys, I have very little respect for Monkeys. I never have and i never will. Therefore the conclusion is they deserved what they got.
bruv, an eye for an eye, they used words, and the other brothers used fists and weopons, remember this rhyme as a kid?

"sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"

so you still think they deserved it?

its like saying this, im not a good debater, and someone out-debates me, i should go and beat them up because i cant take it? (this is not a good example)

again, you call people names, they are not monkeys.

[br ash]

bruv, an eye for an eye, they used words, and the other brothers used fists and weopons, remember this rhyme as a kid?

"sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"

so you still think they deserved it?

its like saying this, im not a good debater, and someone out-debates me, i should go and beat them up because i cant take it? (this is not a good example)

again, you call people names, they are not monkeys.

First of all they did not go for a debate. Had they would not have used ABUSIVE WORDS. :mad:

Now if they behave like monkeys, they will get called Monkeys. :mad:

Lets put it this way, on another thread, defined the people who approached Iqbal Scarine, the term Monkeys raid Mosque... . They are no different.

Salaam


Ash

[abdulmojid]

First of all they did not go for a debate. Had they would not have used ABUSIVE WORDS. :mad:
such as? they never swore of anything like that did they? ok, so u say it was no debate, but really and truly, did they deserve to get beaten on when they only used words?

Now if they behave like monkeys, they will get called Monkeys. :mad:
so your acting like a prat for saying uk troops are your boys, am i allowed to call you a prat?

[br ash]

such as? they never swore of anything like that did they? ok, so u say it was no debate, but really and truly, did they deserve to get beaten on when they only used words?

so your acting like a prat for saying uk troops are your boys, am i allowed to call you a prat?
Brother you can say what you want, that is your choice.

British troops are the troops of the citizens of the UK, you may or may not like what they do in your name, that is your choice. The issue is either you are a UK citizen or you are not. Only a prat would hold dearly to the citizenship of country he has no liking for. I am sure you will agree with me on that.

As usual brother you do not know what you are talking about.

Salaam


Ash

[ayatullah]

Salam

Please note that I am not from any of the above groups. I do represent Islam, inshallah.

Brother Ash and everyone else, mohammed(saw) said "Speak good or remain silent...".

Allah(swt) says: “O you who believe! Fear Allah and speak a word that is right.....[ Sûrah al-Ahzâb : 70-71]

Allah(swt) defines what is right and wrong. The fighting that occured on this day is clearly haram. None of those muslims had a right to hurt another. You seem to advocate that it was acceptable and deserving. Nobody cares for your views if they are contrary to the views of Allah. Ya Allah forgive us for the wrong which is always coming out of our mouths.

We need to take heed of the hadith when mohammed(saw) said '...a drop of muslim blood is more sacred then the kabah...'. As for that brother who was hospitalised, inshallah he will have a quick recovery and allah will guide him and the rest of us on the straigh path.

If you see something wrong in your brother, advise him, help him, change him, if you take up arms against him unjustly then you are commiting a serious sin. Ya Allah please keep us on the straight path.

[IslamicHope]

Br Ash....

I have mixed with HT people for the last 12 years, among other groups, please don't assume I am a sister locked up in a kitchen who knows nothing about the world. Your experience with HT seems to be
1) limited, and
2) a misunderstaing of Islamic terminology

1) I was at uni with HT's, lived with them, and witnessed their dawa at Uni for 5 years. I have relatives of relatives that are HT or ex-HT, old and young, highly educated, and intelligent, university professors, Scientists, scholars etc. I have met HT in at least 6 arab/muslim countries, and of course in the UK. How many countries have you been to and seen HT? Please don't assume that every young zealot looni you meet on the street who says the word 'khilafah' is a HT memeber, this word is not the monopoly of HT, other groups, and muslims want khilafah too (and we should).

2) When Islamic groups say, something is "kufr", or you have done "kufr", this is NOT the same word as the word "Kaafir". They are 2 different wordsm and have radically different results. To say someone is "Kaafir" is very grave and we should never say this unless e.g. they believe in another prophet, like the Qadianis. BUT to say someone has done kufr, or "it is kufr" is not the same as saying he or hse is Kaafir. Kufr is an act which disbeleivers do, but does NOT make you kafir, e.g. some scholars say missing Salat al-Jumuah 3 times is an act of Kufr, but this does not make you a kaafir. Do you follow? SO people get confused with terminology, and then over reeact thinking that they are saying Kaafir.

Anyway, you should be truthful, when omar bakri & his group is the topic you should not divert it to HT, as unlike HT, omar bakri clearly says in his speeches and leaflets that people are Kaafir. so focus on correcting them..

[remember]

can i just say- this accusations that YMO and IFE started the whole fracas is a total lie - this so called saviour sect group came prepared with weapons and such - proof of which is the only person to get arrested for carrying weapons was from their group-

IFE / YMO didn't start it-but from what i hear they certainly did finish it-and i suspect we will not be hearing from these loonies around east london anymore...

[br ash]

Br Ash....

I have mixed with HT people for the last 12 years, among other groups, please don't assume I am a sister locked up in a kitchen who knows nothing about the world. Your experience with HT seems to be
1) limited, and
2) a misunderstaing of Islamic terminology

1) I was at uni with HT's, lived with them, and witnessed their dawa at Uni for 5 years. I have relatives of relatives that are HT or ex-HT, old and young, highly educated, and intelligent, university professors, Scientists, scholars etc. I have met HT in at least 6 arab/muslim countries, and of course in the UK. How many countries have you been to and seen HT? Please don't assume that every young zealot looni you meet on the street who says the word 'khilafah' is a HT memeber, this word is not the monopoly of HT, other groups, and muslims want khilafah too (and we should).

2) When Islamic groups say, something is "kufr", or you have done "kufr", this is NOT the same word as the word "Kaafir". They are 2 different wordsm and have radically different results. To say someone is "Kaafir" is very grave and we should never say this unless e.g. they believe in another prophet, like the Qadianis. BUT to say someone has done kufr, or "it is kufr" is not the same as saying he or hse is Kaafir. Kufr is an act which disbeleivers do, but does NOT make you kafir, e.g. some scholars say missing Salat al-Jumuah 3 times is an act of Kufr, but this does not make you a kaafir. Do you follow? SO people get confused with terminology, and then over reeact thinking that they are saying Kaafir.

Anyway, you should be truthful, when omar bakri & his group is the topic you should not divert it to HT, as unlike HT, omar bakri clearly says in his speeches and leaflets that people are Kaafir. so focus on correcting them..

I have never implied or stated that you are locked up in a Kithchin. I can conclude is that you assume a lot:D

Sister i never questioned your experience, simply one can not unless one knows one directly.

Like wise sister for you to assume that my experience is limited and me having misunderstand of Islamic terminology, is beyound a joke. You do not know me. For you to say what you have stated, reflects very badly on you. You are full of your own assumptions.:D:D:D

I can only go by my experience, and those experience are where HT members categorically were calling fellow Muslims Kafir. Just because you have not come across that breed of HT, does not mean it does not exist. It simply does.

HT and there ilk are no different than BNP. On the outside they paint a picture, they are above board. Inside the hearts of a number of HT that I have come across, it’s a different thing. Yes they’re some HT that are well mannered, but there are HT who are rude and call fellow Muslims Kafir. Fact of life sister.

Salaam


Ash

[br ash]

Islamichope, what hope? saidMuslim groups who believe in voting like the MAB have not endorsed a single conservative! Have you read the fatwa of shiekh al-haddad posted by MPAC?

MPAC and MAB leaders and membership is Labour Background. MPAC, has a very large Labour Membership. Number of its past elected representative are Labour Party members and Councillors.

It does not take Rocket science to deduce there voting stance. :D:D

BY the MAB are backing RESPECT.

To me the most important issue is political involvement.

Issue regarding Zionist, they are within the Labour Party, Lib Dems and Conservative Party. Ironically the Jewish people majority who happen to be Zionist vote Labour, that is also reason why there are more Jewish MPs within the Labour Party than within the Conservative Party. Many of the Left Wings Socialist radicals happened to be Jewish, who played a major part in the Labour Party evolution.

Last but not least and the most important, Muslim have to be involved in all political parties if they do not, they will lose. Jewish people look after there interest, so Hindus etc. They are involved in all the political parties. I have said many time, within the next 5 years, the Conservative will be in Power, no question about it. Muslim will have a choice, it they plant there seeds now, they will be able to reap a harvest in seven years time, if not as usual, they will end up with scarps, like they have got from the Labour Party. Its there choice.

As usual you do not know what you are talking about.

Salaam

Ash

[Basayev]

Salam alaykum

This is probably going of topic but i wanted to know what ol' George's views were on the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

[Yahya]

He was one of the leading figures in the anti-War movement. He was expelled fron the Labour Party after calling on Iraqi mujahideen to resist the Anglo-American invders (not that they needed his advice). He also is very vocal in his anti-Zionism.

That's how he's got his reputation as a 'friend' of the Muslim community.

[Basayev]

Oh sorry bro , i was asking about Afghanistan and typed Iraq!!

Jazakallah for the answer though . Interesting , i didnt know he supported resistance.

What about his Afghanistan views, do you know anything about that?

[Yahya]

Standard Stalinist.

The mujahideen are fascists...

Strangely, the Socialist Workers who are the biggest left group in Respect were pro-mujahideen and anti-Soviet.

[Basayev]

Salam

So is that a yes?? I was talking about the current invasion of Afghanistan by America.

If he was a Stalin supporter though and supported the first inavsion of Afganistan by the soviets , why is he considered Muslim friendly?

Must be some confused people out there me-thinks ....

[Yahya]

Sooo many invasions.

I think he's always anti-American, but I don't remember him playing a prominent part in the demos I was on to oppose the US invasion.

I mostly remember Jeremy Corbyn, Tony Benn and Ken Livingstone as the only MPs who supported us. I have respect for them because of it. It was VERY hard to oppose the invasion of Afghanistan. It wasn't as popular as opposing the Iraq war.

[abdulmojid]

IFE / YMO didn't start it-but from what i hear they certainly did finish it-and i suspect we will not be hearing from these loonies around east london anymore...
from what you hear? so what did you hear? it seems to me like you heard the got beaten up, thus 'finishing' it!

there are some bros from the east end, so i very much doubt these guys have been silenced.




As usual brother you do not know what you are talking about.

:rolleyes:

[remember]

from what you hear? so what did you hear? it seems to me like you heard the got beaten up, thus 'finishing' it!

from respectable onlookers-not from the lies the so-called "saviour sect" have spun about them - i heard that these thugs had been intimidating Galloway and locals who were canvassing for them- they tried to run one of the canvassers over- they surrounded them-then when the rest of the guys from East London Mosque came they ran away-some tried to fight-one of them had a police baton-others had other weaponry-and not surprisingly the only person to be arrested for carrying weaponry where those from these "saviour sect".

If you look at the video and the "dawah" these guys are supposedly doing they just look and sound like complete louts.

[br ash]

from respectable onlookers-not from the lies the so-called "saviour sect" have spun about them - i heard that these thugs had been intimidating Galloway and locals who were canvassing for them- they tried to run one of the canvassers over- they surrounded them-then when the rest of the guys from East London Mosque came they ran away-some tried to fight-one of them had a police baton-others had other weaponry-and not surprisingly the only person to be arrested for carrying weaponry where those from these "saviour sect".

If you look at the video and the "dawah" these guys are supposedly doing they just look and sound like complete louts.

I agree with you, members of Saviour Sect are morons, nothing more nothing less.

Salamm


Ash

[Illuminate]

I agree with you, members of Saviour Sect are morons, nothing more nothing less.

salaam

I have been saying for a long time, there is a growing cancer of muslim men, who go by various names, resorting to thuggary, violence and intimidation to make their voice heard.....Speaking to them they can't even construct a coherent arguement without insult and slander...

[remember]

Speaking to them they can't even construct a coherent arguement without insult and slander...

yes especially these "saviour sect" types...

[abdulmojid]

yes especially these "saviour sect" types...

and ash too

[barodate]

Hmm i am not a keen supporter of the saviour sect..... although i do agree with them on quite a few points i dont like the idea that everyone takes their fatwas from Omar Bakri as if he is the only remaining sheikh.. they dont seem to acknowledge that there are sometimes more than one view on a matter.

But i dont believe they deserved to be beaten up. I mean wasnt it Iqbal Sacranie that wanted everyone to join the british army? hell he should be sorted out for saying that. I also hate the fact that MCB are so obsessed with doing everything with peaceful means. Why didnt they tell people to help the iraqi resistance rather than the british army. They really dont seem to confront the concept of the PHYSICAL jihad, which although is the lesser one, is still bloody important lol.

[khilafah4islam]

Hmm i am not a keen supporter of the saviour sect..... although i do agree with them on quite a few points i dont like the idea that everyone takes their fatwas from Omar Bakri as if he is the only remaining sheikh.. they dont seem to acknowledge that there are sometimes more than one view on a matter.

But i dont believe they deserved to be beaten up. I mean wasnt it Iqbal Sacranie that wanted everyone to join the british army? hell he should be sorted out for saying that. I also hate the fact that MCB are so obsessed with doing everything with peaceful means. Why didnt they tell people to help the iraqi resistance rather than the british army. They really dont seem to confront the concept of the PHYSICAL jihad, which although is the lesser one, is still bloody important lol.

Very true. I have heard them say things like "were only concerned with Muslims in the UK". I heard them refuse to Openly say the supported Hamas Islamic Jihad or Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. I seriously doubt if they were asked publically "do u support the resistance against UK troops in Iraq"? they would yes

However when Ken Bigly is held hostage in Iraq they go to Baghdad in some PR stunt to try and please their masters and try to show they have some sort of Influence. Was pathetic!!!

[barodate]

Yes i have to admit they i did think the whole thing with Ken Bigley was a little bit too scripted.

It looked like they were desperately yet quietly pleading "please convert".

[abdulmojid]

thats what i dont like about the MCB, and they are ment to represent the muslims? HELL NO!!! they dont represent me when they make unislamic comments like we should join the army, how pathetic!