Salma Yaqub on Question Time Tonight

[Morning Dew]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/4623790.stm

This should be worth watching, especially for you Brummies out there..

MD.

P.S. I hope the link works :S

[watchthevideo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/4623790.stm

This should be worth watching, especially for you Brummies out there..

MD.

P.S. I hope the link works :S
Thanks for posting this... :D

[Illuminate]

It was the first time I have heard her speak, I think she done quite well
Spoke lot of sense..

Good on her

[sunni]

It was the first time I have heard her speak, I think she done quite well
Spoke lot of sense..

Good on her



its good isnt it? :) we should all learn to be like that, we all have potential alhamdulillah

[FractionMan]

She said having mini brothels was ok.

[Ali Abdullah]

Who thinks she should be the leader of RESPECT?

[Basayev]

She said having mini brothels was ok.

:eek:

She said that?

[FractionMan]

yes she did.

When asked by the chair something to the effect of "do you support this legislation" she didnt answer directly, but said that a two pronged approach was needed, where men should be dealt with, and prostitutes given more support. A ver valid statement.

But she was then pressed by the chair, if she agreed with the legislation, and she said yes. But then this is the loop hole in respect. They are a left wing party, they support legalisation of brothels, open homosexuality...

You can watch the show online if you want to check for yourself. Check the bbc site

[TheBatman]

I used to respect Salma, but Ive just read on the comments section of the mpac site, that she will be attending the holocaust day. sorry anyone who will sell us out on Palestine isnt worth any respect. :cool:

[FractionMan]

I used to respect Salma, but Ive just read on the comments section of the mpac site, that she will be attending the holocaust day. sorry anyone who will sell us out on Palestine isnt worth any respect. :cool:

She is RESPECT. George is away, as second big wig in the party she has to attend.

Yeah, i think she should stand firm with Muslims and say she won't, but when does RESPECT represent Islam or Muslims?

So maybe you should question your intial respect for Salma, rather than be dissapointed now.

[PhoeniX]

She said having mini brothels was ok.

She must have had the RESPECT Cap on.

People need to start seeing her as a RESPECT representative. Not as a muslim spokesperson.

[Illuminate]

She said having mini brothels was ok.
But she has to talk about these issue in reality
She could have said banned all prostitution and curb crawlers - but would this be practical and sensible approach.

What she said, about this issue, is that there should be ways in which woman can be HELPED in making sure they are safe and given an opportunity to come out off this way off life and gave various things that can be done. - she works as a social worker or is it a therapist, so she deals with these people and has first hand knowledge..

I thought her answer was spot on..

[GCarty]

curb crawlersAre you American by any chance? The British spelling is "kerb"...

[br ash]

But she has to talk about these issue in reality
She could have said banned all prostitution and curb crawlers - but would this be practical and sensible approach.

What she said, about this issue, is that there should be ways in which woman can be HELPED in making sure they are safe and given an opportunity to come out off this way off life and gave various things that can be done. - she works as a social worker or is it a therapist, so she deals with these people and has first hand knowledge..

I thought her answer was spot on..

Forget about the UK, look at the prostitution that occurs in that country.

In the UK, it is going to be very hard to remove prostitutes from our streets. One of the best way to remove it from neighbourhood is by moving them to outside of the cities and towns.

You two choices prostitutes on the streets and a pest, or prostitutes out of town and you cant see them. I prefer the latter any day, i think that is what SALMA YAQOOB is getting at.

We have to live in the real world, there are many laws that we can not change, what we can do is influence them to degree that it makes our lives easier and better. And that is what politics is.


Salaam


ash

[Yahya]

I used to respect Salma, but Ive just read on the comments section of the mpac site, that she will be attending the holocaust day. sorry anyone who will sell us out on Palestine isnt worth any respect. :cool:

I think this is unfair. There is a legitimate dispute about the best way to handle this issue and attending doesn't amount to "selling us out on Palestine", any more than refusal to attend indicates support for the Holocaust.

Hand on heart, have you done more for Palestine than she has?

Now the other question is more worrying. This isn't just a Muslim issue either. I used to live in a part of Leeds (Harehills/Chapletown) where prostitution was common. A woman, my wife and morther-in-law included, couldn't walk down the street without being harrassed by perverts, sometimes very agressively. A friend of ours, who lived on Chapletown Road, let his six year old daughter play in her own front garden and she was propositioned by a paedophile who thought every female was for hire. And there was the crime - muggings, robberies and drugs - all of them go hand in hand with prostitution. (I thank Allah regularily for getting me out of that hellhole.)

Apart from the obvious reason, that's why I think prostitution should be stamped out. It's all very well Tony Blair talking about small brothels but does he have to live next to them. Will fat drooling perverts proposition his wife or mother-in-law? Moving it out of town doesn't help. In Bradford and Edinburgh tolerance zones have just led to female office and factory workers getting the same sort of harrasment.

My wife takes the opposite view though, she'd rather have the problem discretely hidden away behind closed doors in order to get it off the street. Then the only people who need to be involved would be those who want to be. Of course, when I asked her about why she would tolerate this when she went ape at the idea of a Spearment Rhino opening near us, she hurriedly left for work...the row goes on.

[Illuminate]

Are you American by any chance? The British spelling is "kerb"...
lol - not american, but I was not born in the UK as well
I went to an American school in the country I was born - hence a sometimes spell and say things with a mixture of the ameican and british way...


Forget about the UK, look at the prostitution that occurs in that country.

In the UK, it is going to be very hard to remove prostitutes from our streets. One of the best way to remove it from neighbourhood is by moving them to outside of the cities and towns.

You two choices prostitutes on the streets and a pest, or prostitutes out of town and you cant see them. I prefer the latter any day, i think that is what SALMA YAQOOB is getting at.

We have to live in the real world, there are many laws that we can not change, what we can do is influence them to degree that it makes our lives easier and better. And that is what politics is.

Agree, you been talking lot of sense lately, obviously you have given up the HT/Taliban comic books and stop smoking the weed :D :D - (just joking)

[Tahira]

I have no respect for RESPECT, but I have got some respect for Salma Yaqoob as an individual. I thought she came across as very well-informed and articulate. Her answer on prosititution made a lot of sense and was more compassionate than some of these Muslims who'd like to condemn these women who have often effectively been sold into sexual slavery. And it was great to see a hijabi on Question Time! :) I emailed the BBC to say I enjoyed her contribution and look forward to seeing more such articulate young British Muslims on high-profile Current Affair programmes. (Question Time feedback online form: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3980000/newsid_3986700/3986771.stm )

P.S. I really hope this rumour that she is going to sell out Palestine by supporting the Zionist propaganda effort that is Holocaust Memorial Day isn't true. :confused:

[br ash]

lol - not american, but I was not born in the UK as well
I went to an American school in the country I was born - hence a sometimes spell and say things with a mixture of the ameican and british way...


Agree, you been talking lot of sense lately, obviously you have given up the HT/Taliban comic books and stop smoking the weed - (just joking)

tut tut tut :nono: I smoke higher quality drug brand, Havanh, Sumatra etc, and i have no intention of giving up my ONLY VICE.:D


I always make sense, I am just misunderstood by the HT/Talban comic book readers that’s all.:D



Salaam

Ash

[AgtBauer]

I was impressed with her, she was with lot of experienced pro's on the panel and held her own.

[hussein]

salaam

i thought she was really good except for the galloway bit where she sounded like a real politician and if labour keep rodger godsiff in that seat i will make sure that i will join her campaign team for the next election.

[sunni]

yahya, wen u say 'Hand on heart, have you done more for Palestine than she has?'
individuals, orgs...know how much they are doing, just cos she has joined respect and comes on TV etc, does it mean she is doing more than others?

she is a inspiration in being a lady and making use of her intelligence, whilst others dont... in terms of mini brothels, seems like u have taken her conduct as the lesser of two evils?

[Basayev]

So what has she done for Palestinians?

[islamic]

Sometimes we as muslims we forget about where we get our solutions from and use slogans like "be practical man" or "get in touch with reality"

If prostitution is not allowed then as muslims we cant endorse "safe houses" (brothels) for women to work. This is totally unacceptable. Salama accepting brothels is unacceptable.

Rather we should eradicate the problem.

Salama said mini brothels are a good idea. I dont think salma even believes this. That was an example of how you have to compromise on Islam when you play politics on their bases,

Rather if the muslims played islamic politics we can shows ourselves as deciplined people who do not change with time and public opinion. And we will be looked up to as a community and respected.

Just like someone from the audience said "britain is losing its moral compass"

1 day gays is illigel and the next day it is fashionable.
1 day cannabis is illegal the next it is acceptable
1 day prostitution is illegal the next we give them houses

today pedophilia is illegal tommorrow it will be ok with parental concent.

We as muslims should never compromise, rather lets stand with islam with dignity and trust me the non-muslims will have more respect for you.

[sunni]

Sometimes we as muslims we forget about where we get our solutions from and sure slogans like "be practical man" or "get in touch with reality"

If prostitution is not allowed that as muslims we cant endorse "safe houses" (brothels) for women to work in. This is totally unacceptable.

Rather we should eradicate the problem.

Salama said mini brothels are a good idea. I dont think salma even believes this. That was an example of how you have to compromise on Islam when you play politics on their bases,

Rather is the muslims played islamic politics we can shows ourselves as deciplined people who do not change with time and public opinion. And we will be looked up to as a community and respected.

Just like someone from the audience said "britain is losing its moral compass"

1 day gays is illigel and the next day it is fashionable.
1 day cannabis is illegal the next it is acceptable
1 day prostitution is illegal the next we give them houses

today pedophilia is illegal tommorrow it will be ok with parental concent.

We as muslims shouls never compromise rather lets stand with islam with dignity and trust me the non-muslims will have more respect for you.


we can make compromises to an extent, but not those which interfere with doctrinal elements in Islam.
no?

[islamic]

ye thats what i meant. :)

[Yahya]

So what has she done for Palestinians?

Played a role in organising some of the biggest demos britain has ever seen on the subject and kept it at the heart of the anti-war campaign despite pressures to drop it to keep the peace. She is also a leader of the only anti-Zionist party in British politics.

Now plenty of people like criticise others for their errors, or even their successes, from the comfort of their bedroom without going through the difficult experiance of working with others to put our agenda on the map.

She wasn't alone in doing that. But two people on this forum have acccused her of "selling out Palestine" for attending the Holocaust memorial, as if not attending was the magical key to liberating Palestine.

This is nonsense. There are plenty of reasons, other than Zionist ones, to commemorate the Holocaust. These sort of events have always been used by anti-Nazis to undermine the BNP for example.

But there's another thread to discuss that issue.


we can make compromises to an extent, but not those which interfere with doctrinal elements in Islam.
no?

But what does that actually mean? The only way to stay "pure" is not to attempt to from alliances with non-Muslims. Whether in Respect of the mainstream parties, we have to bite our tongues about some issues.

Islam forbids homosexuality, so we clearly have to oppose "Gay Muslim" groups who say Allah permits it. Neither can we promote Gay marriage as somebody has on the MWU website. The political battle over gay rights is over, both in Parlaiment and in the court of public opinion - and the gays won. But does that mean we should burn all our political bridges by leading a campaign against it? Are the private activities of non-Mulsims so important to us?

The issue of legalised brothels is different again. There's still a chance of winning this issue, so our attitude should be different. As I said futher up the thread, it's no picnic living in a red light district and I think those who have to will support opposition to legalisation. But I could be wrong, in which case we would be tilting at windmills again.

The point is whereas the morals of Islam are absolute, our political strategy isn't. We don't live in a Muslim, or even a seriously Christian society. So there's no point trying to impose our values on it. We must make no compromise in our own lives, or in the advise we give to fellow Muslims, but when it comes to warning those who aren't listening, we should walk a line betweem isolation and compromise, taking the best interest of the community and the wider Ummah as the guide for our actions.

Or to put it more simply, who here walks down the road shouting at non-Muslims?: You there, you're dressed like a prostitute - cover yourself up! And you - drunk again - shame on you! And you to in the doorway kissing - are you married? YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL TO BURN FOREVER!!!! Now if you don't do this in your daily life, why not? Aren't we supposed command the right and forbid the wrong? Or have you made a calculation of risk and benefit? The benefit of speaking out is not worth the risk of getting your head kicked in. So why do you think we can do in politics what we avoid on the street?

Sometimes that will mean speaking out, even when it makes us unpopular, because we know there's a chance of winning others to our position based on their morals. Palestine is a good example of this. It is true to say that if the people of the West actually understood what has happened and is happening to the Palestinians, they would be outraged. There is also a solid minority of non-Muslims who agree with us. Victory on this issue would have no political downsides, the Palestinians would benefit and so would we, since the cause of Muslim discontent would be more widely known and Muslims would get wider public sympathy.

On the other hand our view on the gay issue, together with all other issues of personal morality, goes against the "moral compass" of the majority in Britain. It's no good saying "where will it all end, will paedophilia be legalised" because 80% of people don't see it that way. That doesn't make them right, but it does mean we can't win the argument.

The British think that what a person does in the bedroom is their own affair (unless they're a politician or a celebrity), and that it's wrong for anyone else to impose their beliefs on them. The basis for our morality is obedience to Allah. So how can we ask non-Muslims to subscribe to that morality and realistically expect them to agree. Conservative Christians agree, because they believe in obedience to their Churches' docterine. But their victory is not our victory because that docterine is not Islam and if they succeed in imposing it on Britain they will gladly trample our rights, for example, by forcing our children to worship Jesus in schools. So, like it or not, we are forced to tolerate "diversity", and align ourselves to its political advocates.

[Illuminate]

Played a role in organising some of the biggest demos britain has ever seen on the subject and kept it at the heart of the anti-war campaign despite pressures to drop it to keep the peace. She is also a leader of the only anti-Zionist party in British politics.

Now plenty of people like criticise others for their errors, or even their successes, from the comfort of their bedroom without going through the difficult experiance of working with others to put our agenda on the map.

She wasn't alone in doing that. But two people on this forum have acccused her of "selling out Palestine" for attending the Holocaust memorial, as if not attending was the magical key to liberating Palestine.

This is nonsense. There are plenty of reasons, other than Zionist ones, to commemorate the Holocaust. These sort of events have always been used by anti-Nazis to undermine the BNP for example.

But there's another thread to discuss that issue.



But what does that actually mean? The only way to stay "pure" is not to attempt to from alliances with non-Muslims. Whether in Respect of the mainstream parties, we have to bite our tongues about some issues.

Islam forbids homosexuality, so we clearly have to oppose "Gay Muslim" groups who say Allah permits it. Neither can we promote Gay marriage as somebody has on the MWU website. The political battle over gay rights is over, both in Parlaiment and in the court of public opinion - and the gays won. But does that mean we should burn all our political bridges by leading a campaign against it? Are the private activities of non-Mulsims so important to us?

The issue of legalised brothels is different again. There's still a chance of winning this issue, so our attitude should be different. As I said futher up the thread, it's no picnic living in a red light district and I think those who have to will support opposition to legalisation. But I could be wrong, in which case we would be tilting at windmills again.

The point is whereas the morals of Islam are absolute, our political strategy isn't. We don't live in a Muslim, or even a seriously Christian society. So there's no point trying to impose our values on it. We must make no compromise in our own lives, or in the advise we give to fellow Muslims, but when it comes to warning those who aren't listening, we should walk a line betweem isolation and compromise, taking the best interest of the community and the wider Ummah as the guide for our actions.

Or to put it more simply, who here walks down the road shouting at non-Muslims?: You there, you're dressed like a prostitute - cover yourself up! And you - drunk again - shame on you! And you to in the doorway kissing - are you married? YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL TO BURN FOREVER!!!! Now if you don't do this in your daily life, why not? Aren't we supposed command the right and forbid the wrong? Or have you made a calculation of risk and benefit? The benefit of speaking out is not worth the risk of getting your head kicked in. So why do you think we can do in politics what we avoid on the street?

Sometimes that will mean speaking out, even when it makes us unpopular, because we know there's a chance of winning others to our position based on their morals. Palestine is a good example of this. It is true to say that if the people of the West actually understood what has happened and is happening to the Palestinians, they would be outraged. There is also a solid minority of non-Muslims who agree with us. Victory on this issue would have no political downsides, the Palestinians would benefit and so would we, since the cause of Muslim discontent would be more widely known and Muslims would get wider public sympathy.

On the other hand our view on the gay issue, together with all other issues of personal morality, goes against the "moral compass" of the majority in Britain. It's no good saying "where will it all end, will paedophilia be legalised" because 80% of people don't see it that way. That doesn't make them right, but it does mean we can't win the argument.

The British think that what a person does in the bedroom is their own affair (unless they're a politician or a celebrity), and that it's wrong for anyone else to impose their beliefs on them. The basis for our morality is obedience to Allah. So how can we ask non-Muslims to subscribe to that morality and realistically expect them to agree. Conservative Christians agree, because they believe in obedience to their Churches' docterine. But their victory is not our victory because that docterine is not Islam and if they succeed in imposing it on Britain they will gladly trample our rights, for example, by forcing our children to worship Jesus in schools. So, like it or not, we are forced to tolerate "diversity", and align ourselves to its political advocates.
Agreed with nearly everything you have said.

Some people just know how to shout slogans and make statements, without looking into the practicality of these issue.



whereas the morals of Islam are absolute, our political strategy isn't.
Excellent Statement..

[islamic]

I think here lies the real issue.

Should we compromise on islamic ideas, thoughts and believes in order to get forward in britian.

People who say that we should compromise say that this is the onlyt way to go forward in brtish society and use the old cliches

"this aint an islamic state so what do u expect us to do"

They argue that we need to give some to get some in britain and that if we remain "pure" we will become isolationaist.

This is where the real issue lies.

I beleive we can remain pure while at the same time be a productive member of society.

I believe that we can remain pure and still work with non-muslim groups

And if we do this our personality will shine and people will get to see what islam truly is.

PS
Being ISlamic in britain doesnt mean that somehow to remainpure you have to walk around with a whip, and shouting at people.

[Yahya]

I think here lies the real issue.

Should we compromise on islamic ideas, thoughts and believes in order to get forward in britian.

People who say that we should compromise say that this is the onlyt way to go forward in brtish society and use the old cliches

"this aint an islamic state so what do u expect us to do"

They argue that we need to give some to get some in britain and that if we remain "pure" we will become isolationaist.

This is where the real issue lies.

I beleive we can remain pure while at the same time be a productive member of society.

I believe that we can remain pure and still work with non-muslim groups

And if we do this our personality will shine and people will get to see what islam truly is.

PS
Being ISlamic in britain doesnt mean that somehow to remainpure you have to walk around with a whip, and shouting at people.

What do you mean by pure? Pure in ourselves - yes, you are right. But if we try and impose our morality on everyone else, we cannot work with others.

Being in a political party means toeing the party line. So if you are not willing to accept their views on moral questions then you won't be allowed to stay in that party.

Being in an alliance with someone, of the sort we have seen in the anti-War movement or Respect means making life easy for our partners, emphasising points of agreement and downplaying points of disagreement. Otherwise the alliance will not hold for long. Remember, they are doing the same.

That is the price of playing politics, if you don't like it - don't do it! Make a difference elsewhere. You can be part of this society and not be politically involved, most of the population is!

Or you can involve yourself indirectly through organisations like MPAC which seek to make a difference by working within the Mulsim community to put pressure on those who seek our votes and support.

But there is a limit to the tolerance of non-Muslims in Britain. They hate our religion. They hate people telling them how they should conduct their private lives on the basis of devine command. They react to this with disproportionate violence of emotion. We do not suffer because we are different from them. We suffer because we remind them of what they used to be. They prefer Buddhism and Hinduism to Islam because our morals are resemble theirs and its their morals they are trying to deny.

That is why allowing them to see us for what we are will not necessarily result in victory. Even if they didn't think we were terrorists, they would still know we were judging them by standards that they can neither abandon entirely or endure living by.

[islamic]

salams

The word pure i used was borrowed for the reply before mine

You said that if you join a political party you "have to toe the party line"

So you've hit the nail on the head.

We want the best for muslims....why?
because we do it for the sake of Allah.. why?
becasue we wona go to jannah.

So it becomes quite clear that if we wana help the muslims (and yes they need help)

Then we need to do it in accordance with islam otherwise the whole purpose of doing the action goes down the drain.

So you said that joining political parties means having to "toe the party line" therby professing ideas which do not conform to islam, becasue like you said "otherwise you will be kicked out"

So then quite frankly we shouldn't be working with these parties.

Becasue if we wana help the muslims because we wana please allah becasuse we wana go to jannah then we need to stick to islam.

Just like what our prohet did and just like how the companions did when they migrated to abysinia (cant give details here take to long)

So what can we do.

We can work with our communities to solve our community problems using islamic politics eg drugs, schooling, social problems....therby sticking to islam

Things wont be perfect and this work is hard but that what we should expect.

JAzaks

[Predator]

all you salma yaqoob supporters.. come back down to earth. She is going to the holocaust memorial day. she is a sellout, with self interests.

[Basayev]

all you salma yaqoob supporters.. come back down to earth. She is going to the holocaust memorial day. she is a sellout, with self interests.

Bro Yahyas reply:


She wasn't alone in doing that. But two people on this forum have acccused her of "selling out Palestine" for attending the Holocaust memorial, as if not attending was the magical key to liberating Palestine.

This is nonsense. There are plenty of reasons, other than Zionist ones, to commemorate the Holocaust. These sort of events have always been used by anti-Nazis to undermine the BNP for example.


To be honest i agree with Bro Yahya. Its not gonna make a difference to Palestine as it is.

[AgtBauer]

I agree with Yahya.

[Illuminate]

salams

The word pure i used was borrowed for the reply before mine

You said that if you join a political party you "have to toe the party line"

So you've hit the nail on the head.

We want the best for muslims....why?
because we do it for the sake of Allah.. why?
becasue we wona go to jannah.

So it becomes quite clear that if we wana help the muslims (and yes they need help)

Then we need to do it in accordance with islam otherwise the whole purpose of doing the action goes down the drain.

So you said that joining political parties means having to "toe the party line" therby professing ideas which do not conform to islam, becasue like you said "otherwise you will be kicked out"

So then quite frankly we shouldn't be working with these parties.

Becasue if we wana help the muslims because we wana please allah becasuse we wana go to jannah then we need to stick to islam.

Just like what our prohet did and just like how the companions did when they migrated to abysinia (cant give details here take to long)

So what can we do.

We can work with our communities to solve our community problems using islamic politics eg drugs, schooling, social problems....therby sticking to islam

Things wont be perfect and this work is hard but that what we should expect.

JAzaks
What a load of twaddle by tweedle 'de' and tweedle 'dum' this is the typical response from ppl who follow silly ideas.


We want the best for muslims....why?
because we do it for the sake of Allah.. why?
becasue we wona go to jannah.


Allah Tala sent prophets to show mercy to the people, the book of Allah, is a book of mercy to the whole of mankind and all of Allah creations.. Muslims are responsible of the whole of mankind not just muslims. We are obliged to help all of mankind the best way possible.It is not about compromising the believes of islam, it is about being practical and facing the reality of the world we live.

Majority of woman who are prostitutes are because they are forced into it, this is a form an oppression, muslims are obliged to help those who are oppressed, muslim should take practical steps in helping such people. Not talking about if we want janaah then we do this and do that.

This nonsense, about salma Yaqub, selling out, the only sell outs are those who have their heads in the sand. What does it matter if she goes to the holocaust memorial day, the only people she is selling out are the right wing groups, like the Nazis, BNP and the so called islamist - stop being so judgemental about her.

[islamic]

ofcourse we should help all of mankind thats not even an issue being discussed

we are saying how do you go about it

you are saying lets do whatever.

I'm sayying lets do what is allowed within the boundaries set by islam

If you are prepared to forget ISlam and use "load of twaddle" like "practicality" then you've really got the wrong end of the stick with regards to why your helping people in the first place.

We do good actions to please Allah so we can enter Jannah.

So obviously we shouldn't do things which anger allah eg compromise on islamic ideas.

Islam is practical and sticking to islam will give you honour. Compromising on Islam and using the excuse of "practicality" is quite frankly a "load of twaddle" :)

Islam is practical and inshalla sticking to islam will drive muslims forward

[Illuminate]

ofcourse we should help all of mankind thats not even an issue being discussed

we are saying how do you go about it

you are saying lets do whatever.

I'm sayying lets do what is allowed within the boundaries set by islam

If you are prepared to forget ISlam and use "load of twaddle" like "practicality" then you've really got the wrong end of the stick with regards to why your helping people in the first place.

We do good actions to please Allah so we can enter Jannah.

So obviously we shouldn't do things which anger allah eg compromise on islamic ideas.

Islam is practical and sticking to islam will give you honour. Compromising on Islam and using the excuse of "practicality" is quite frankly a "load of twaddle" :)

Islam is practical and inshalla sticking to islam will drive muslims forward
NOOOOO

I am not saying do whatever, I am being both practical and methodical. You say lets not compromise our deen, so lets have a look what sharia has to say.

This is a fiqh issue and let look at the asl (fundamental prinicples) concerning this. As someone has mention we are taking the lesser of the two evils, but before we look at this principle, let look at the principle before it, i.e. Al-umooru bi maqaasidiha [matters are judged by their motives].

So what is the motive, is it to spread prostitution, off course not. It is to help and safe guard the woman and eventually help them to leave this industry. Many woman who are into this need help and support, not to be stigmatised and seem outcast of society.

Then the other principle comes in “Yukhtaaru ’alal-maslahatayn wa yartakab akhafal-mufsadatayn ’indat-tazaahum [select the higher of the two benefits, or incur the lesser of the two harms when faced with them both].”..

Which has been discuss above, it better to have these woman where they are looked after, so there is not risk of spreading of STD, rather than have them standing outside your doorstep and having punters driving around.

NO one is saying prostitution is halal, but at the same time we need to be practical and face reality. At the moment what you are saying is do nothing and say lets not compromise our deen - is that going to help anyone, part from the filth of the pimps and those who traffic human.

[islamic]

salam

neither of those principles really exist.

"actions ar judged by intentions" is a principle which only works 1 way. If you did a good actions but had a very bad intention, hence you would be sinful

eg i pray( which is a good action) but i could have had the intention to impress my dad (hence this would have made me sinful for doing the action.

But a good intention can NEVER make a bad action good.

eg i will generate interest on my account so that i can use the money to build a mosque. This action is bad (haram) even though i have a noble intetnion

secondly lesser of 2 evils, well this a much contested principle with very limited aplication you can only ever apply it in most cases philisophically.

eg (if i was in a burning house with 2 exits, 1 led me to a pub and the other through a lap dancing club, which exit do i take. (interesting house)

But with regards to allowing mini brothels you cant say i'm using lesser of the 2 evils so mini brothels are ok, Thats absolute nonsense.

brothels however "mini" they are, are not allowed so we dont support them.

Also if someone says you must compromise islam you dont say ok Bob lets apply "lesser of 2 evils"

You simply stick to the boundaries of islam and from here you use the brain that allah has endowed us with to try to be as creative as we can to achieve what we want within those bondaries.

I am shocked at the type of discussions we have to have between ourselves these days. We are debating issues which should be well known.

JAzaks

[GCarty]

But there is a limit to the tolerance of non-Muslims in Britain. They hate our religion. They hate people telling them how they should conduct their private lives on the basis of devine command. They react to this with disproportionate violence of emotion. We do not suffer because we are different from them. We suffer because we remind them of what they used to be. They prefer Buddhism and Hinduism to Islam because our morals are resemble theirs and its their morals they are trying to deny.Good point - one poster on a Usenet group I frequent mentioned an imam in Northern England who regularly
asks his mosque to pray for the conversion of this country - not to Islam, but just back to Christianity...

[binty]

She said having mini brothels was ok.


:eek: :mad: :nono: