Does MPAC Over Hype Zionist Threat?

[TheBatman]

Looks like a few people think that MPAC overhypes the Zionist threat what do people really think, lets hear your opinions. Do you think the the BNP are worse, or maybe there is too much emphasis on it over and above other issues?

Is palestine really the number one priority of Muslims? :confused:

Can we have a moderator put up a poll too see what people think on this thread?

[Mr Sin]

Looks like a few people think that MPAC overhypes the Zionist threat what do people really think, lets hear your opinions. Do you think the the BNP are worse, or maybe there is too much emphasis on it over and above other issues?

Is palestine really the number one priority of Muslims? :confused:

Can we have a moderator put up a poll too see what people think on this thread?

It's a bloody good question.

I, as a Zionist, think MPAC is neurotic about Israel. Even more than me

Given that there are so many issues that affect the Muslim / Arab world it's easy to see why this is both compelling and at the same time utterly corrosive.

It seems that only Israel is the only thing Muslims have in common these days.

Forums are fun though.

[nishath_786]

I wouldn't even say that, Mr Sin.

I know a Lebanese guy who hates Palestinians.

And I don't believe that Zionists run the world. Happy?

[PresidentWPM]

I wouldn't even say that, Mr Sin.

I know a Lebanese guy who hates Palestinians.

And I don't believe that Zionists run the world. Happy?
I believe that Zionists run the world albeit indirectly. I mean Presiden Bush isn't a Zionist but he's controlled by Zionists; Tony Blair isn't a Zionist but he's "surrounded by a Cabal of Jewish Advisors". The Director General of The British Council is DAVID Green, The Chief Inspector of OFSTED is DAVID Bell, the Postmaster General is DAVID Mellows-Facer, the Chief Executive of the Royal Mail is ADAM Crouzier.....

The Pres.

[sunilight]

Can we have a moderator put up a poll too see what people think on this thread?


i wish i could.. but i aint in control of this forum :(

[Mr Sin]

I wouldn't even say that, Mr Sin.

I know a Lebanese guy who hates Palestinians.

And I don't believe that Zionists run the world. Happy?


Your a brave man Nishath_786.

[nishath_786]

Presdient - It's not first names, mate. Adam Crozier is a Scot! It's a Scottish name. He ain't Jewish! ;) Always go by surnames... I can normally tell (not being boastful, though! ;) ) where a person is from by their surname.

I do believe that in teh US there is a lot of influence held by Zionists. The Neo-Con movement is run by Christian fndamentalists who think that Israel shold be populated by Jews so that they can all convert to Christianity. It's not about love of Jews... in reality, these right-wingers are actually anti-semitic.

Cheney once said 'Why should we care for the Jews? They all vote democrat anyway!' - This was once true, but you are right... Perle, Wolfovitz are all prominent Jews in the American establishment. AIPAC, however, is not as powerful as people think. And the Democrats are teh ones who usually take to them.

As for the media.... American media is almost entirely pro-Israel. This is true. CNN flirted with being pro-Palestinian, but changed its tune after intense lobbying in the US. No surprise. However, the European media is almost entirely pro-Palestinian (Mainland Europe). There are a couple of exceptions, but I know that France, Spain and Italy all have a media which highlights Palestine.

News International is pro-Israel. This is more because Murdoch is right-wing and therefore against the very left-wing idea of Palestine.

And I have a huge Palestinian flag draped over my door. To go with the Bangladeshi liberation-era flag in my room! However, I was drawn to Palestine as a human issue, not an Islamic one. I was teh same with South Africa. Teh PLO was a secular organistaion which included Christians, after all. It was only later that religous groups like Hamas took to the forefront due to the inadequacy of teh PLO.

What many Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims don't realise is that many Arabs and specifically Arab regimes are AGAINST Palestine. As I mentioned, many Lebanese hate their brothers. Saudi Arabia could have helped their brothers by cutting off oil supplies, but don't. Egypt is very pally with Israel.

[Mr Sin]

What many Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims don't realise is that many Arabs and specifically Arab regimes are AGAINST Palestine. As I mentioned, many Lebanese hate their brothers. Saudi Arabia could have helped their brothers by cutting off oil supplies, but don't. Egypt is very pally with Israel.

Many Arab regimes are against Palestine becuase the cause is far far more valueable than the solution.

The last thing most Arab regimes want is their favourite festering sore being snatched away from their propoganda machine.

I mean who to hate?

The last thing Assad wants is for himself to become the issue.

[nishath_786]

Sin - More about the preservation of the status quo. Arab regimes do not want a democratic state on their doorstep. It undermines their ruthlessness at home.

Saudis don't want reform of their system... it'd mean that all those rich princes would lose out on their yachts, their 10 wives, their palaces etc.

[Mr Sin]

Sin - More about the preservation of the status quo. Arab regimes do not want a democratic state on their doorstep. It undermines their ruthlessness at home.

Saudis don't want reform of their system... it'd mean that all those rich princes would lose out on their yachts, their 10 wives, their palaces etc.


And Arafats villa. Where did that cash come from I wonder?

[UmmZakariya]

Why dont you tell us about he corruption/bribery that is rife in Israel Sin, or is Arafat and his villa responsible for that too?

[Mr Sin]

Why dont you tell us about he corruption/bribery that is rife in Israel Sin, or is Arafat and his villa responsible for that too?

It would probably take forever.

But I'd doubt that I could site an example that sold out an entire people the way the Arab regimes do.

Just look at the difference between the Arab Leaders lifestyle and the man on the Arab Street.

It's a far far bigger casm then anything Israel can be ashamed of.

[sunilight]

salams....


I know a Lebanese guy who hates Palestinians. i also have heard that the arab world doesnt rate the palestinians very highly...
not that i agree with it...


And I don't believe that Zionists run the world. Happy? I dont think they are on a mission to take over the world either....
I think isreal just wants israel not the entire world...

the americans on the other hand defo want to rule the world

[nishath_786]

FAO: Sunlight - W'Salaam

I was just responding to Mr Sin... if you see what I wrote later, you'll see that I don't believe in the simplification of everything.

I am vehemently pro-Palestinian, but don't believe in a conspiracy.

And the Yanks DO run the world. It's an informal empire. They run it not directly like the British, but through banks, the IMF, the World Bank and multinational corporations.

And, of course, at the point of a gun!

However, ultra-zionists (And I'm sure Mr Sin will back me on this!) DO want more than Israel. They believe that everything from Egypt to Jordan belongs to them. These are the same evil scum that shoot at Arab children in schools. Mash-Allah, they are few and far-between.

[sunilight]

salams
i understand

They believe that everything from Egypt to Jordan belongs to them
i didnt know that..

[Mr Sin]

I think isreal just wants israel


Absolutley right.

Somewhere where I can't be gassed for just being a Jew.

[Mr Sin]

FAO: Sunlight - W'Salaam

I was just responding to Mr Sin... if you see what I wrote later, you'll see that I don't believe in the simplification of everything.

I am vehemently pro-Palestinian, but don't believe in a conspiracy.

And the Yanks DO run the world. It's an informal empire. They run it not directly like the British, but through banks, the IMF, the World Bank and multinational corporations.

And, of course, at the point of a gun!

However, ultra-zionists (And I'm sure Mr Sin will back me on this!) DO want more than Israel. They believe that everything from Egypt to Jordan belongs to them. These are the same evil scum that shoot at Arab children in schools. Mash-Allah, they are few and far-between.

We have our nutters, thats for sure.
We also have extreme religious Jews who are anti-Israel.

Like Islam, we're an exotic mix.

Shalom.

[UmmZakariya]

QUOTE]They believe that everything from Egypt to Jordan belongs to them [/QUOTE]

actually its Egypt to Iraq...and their still mad some of them got thrown out medina the other resident zionist wanted medina back too...lol

Sin also wants the occupation to continue (also he denies the land is even occupied) and certainly doesnt want the establishment of a Palestinian state.

[UmmZakariya]

It's a far far bigger casm then anything Israel can be ashamed of.

No israel has nothing to be ashamed of, not the ethnic cleansing, not the massacers, colonial settlements, the occupation, the deliberate shooting of civilians, because Zionist like you just deny it all...and think the crimes of Arabs makes all your crimes somehow acceptable....duh!

[Mr Sin]

because Zionist like you just deny it all...and think the crimes of Arabs makes all your crimes somehow acceptable....duh!

Yes I do.

Now you've T-boned in with your standard accusations let me ask would you behave if you had annilhation staring at you in the face UZ?

Or is annilhation not a crime in your book?

[UmmZakariya]

no one is anhilating you, you paranoid habitual 'deniar of the truth', Israel has nuclear weapons, the fourth largest army in the world and the unequivocal support of the only superpower in the world (because of the powerful Zionist lobby) yet you want us to think you are under threat of being 'anihilated' any moment, all those kids with stones doing too much damage are they? havent you shot enough of them yet?

...i just dont buy that whole 'we are the victims really argument'.

[Mr Sin]

no one is anhilating you, you paranoid habitual 'deniar of the truth', Israel has nuclear weapons, the fourth largest army in the world and the unequivocal support of the only superpower in the world (because of the powerful Zionist lobby) yet you want us to think you are under threat of being 'anihilated' any moment, all those kids with stones doing too much damage are they? havent you shot enough of them yet?

...i just dont buy that whole 'we are the victims really argument'.

Paranoid....of course I am.

Funny how your so quick to forget the Six Day War.

[UmmZakariya]

the Six Day War

yes that demonstrated how close you were to anihilation.

[Mr Sin]

yes that demonstrated how close you were to anihilation.

Despite your sacasm, the intentions of the Arab world were clear.
Pity King Hussein made the wrong choice for you though.
He himself regretted it.

[UmmZakariya]

yes the intentions of the evil Arabs, while the intentions of the pure zionists are to simply continue a benign occupation build nice settlements for fanatics on confiscated land, demolish palesinian houses, build great big wall and shoot future terrorists-such noble intentions. And still they think they are in danger of being anihilated!

[br ash]

Absolutley right.

Somewhere where I can't be gassed for just being a Jew.

But for Zionist to achieve that aim, in one instance they sent 50,000 innocent Jewish lives to the gas chambers, when they could have saved them. I see your mentality. But then Stern a Zionist, was willing to die and fight for Hitler, another of your Heroes.

Sin, you have a Zionist mentality, when you started a thread, you even claimed you owned the thread in question. I had to point out to you, the thread is not your property, it was the property of MPAC. You being a typical Zionist, you would steal anything or claim rights to it..:D

But then again, when Londoners learn that the Zionist Movement even proposed London as the home for the Jewish People. The Zionist argument, for procession, was that, all evidence points that the first inhabitants of what we call London today, were Jewish. Therefore the argument for London being considered the “Home of Jewish Zionists”. :D:D:D.



Salaam


Ash

[Mr Sin]

But for Zionist to achieve that aim, in one instance they sent 50,000 innocent Jewish lives to the gas chambers, when they could have saved them. I see your mentality. But then Stern a Zionist, was willing to die and fight for Hitler, another of your Heroes.

Sin, you have a Zionist mentality, when you started a thread, you even claimed you owned the thread in question. I had to point out to you, the thread is not your property, it was the property of MPAC. You being a typical Zionist, you would steal anything or claim rights to it..:D

But then again, when Londoners learn that the Zionist Movement even proposed London as the home for the Jewish People. The Zionist argument, for procession, was that, all evidence points that the first inhabitants of what we call London today, were Jewish. Therefore the argument for London being considered the “Home of Jewish Zionists”. :D:D:D.



Salaam


Ash

Hell Br Ash. I wondered where you've been these last few days.

Now I know.

[Mr Sin]

yes the intentions of the evil Arabs, while the intentions of the pure zionists are to simply continue a benign occupation build nice settlements for fanatics on confiscated land, demolish palesinian houses, build great big wall and shoot future terrorists-such noble intentions. And still they think they are in danger of being anihilated!

I was talking about 1967 UZ.

Their wouldn't have been any Palesitinian farmer for you would humbly ask far a carrot if the 'evil' Arabs hadn't looked for a punch up.

Still hadn't learnt their lesson in 1973 either.

[nishath_786]

Brash - Uganda was considered as well!! Can you imagine Israeli troops murdering the Buganda tribe and forcing them from their homes???!! :eek:

What most Zionists don't realise is that their idea of a homeland only dates back a hundred years or so with Herzl. It was a result of the European idea of Nationalism and the pogroms they faced in east Europe.

The idea did not exist before then.

And if we talk about biblical times, then in that case, Britain belongs to the Welsh, India belongs to the Tamils and the Zulus can leave South Africa right now!! :)

[Mr Sin]

[QUOTE=nishath_786]
What most Zionists don't realise is that their idea of a homeland only dates back a hundred years or so with Herzl. It was a result of the European idea of Nationalism and the pogroms they faced in east Europe.

The idea did not exist before then.

QUOTE]

Actually, the 'idea' existed since Roman times.

Just because Political Zionism itself didn't officially take root until 1890, don't assume the return to Israel was a new idea too.

In the late 19th century, the rise of religious and racist anti-Semitism led to a resurgence of pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe, shattering promises of equality and tolerance. This stimulated Jewish immigration to Palestine from Europe.

Simultaneously, a wave of Jews immigrated to Palestine from Yemen, Morocco, Iraq and Turkey. These Jews were unaware of Theodor Herzl's political Zionism or of European pogroms. They were motivated by the centuries-old dream of the “Return to Zion” and a fear of intolerance. Upon hearing that the gates of Palestine were open, they braved the hardships of travel and went to the “Land of Israel.”

The Zionist ideal of a return to Israel has profound religious roots. Many Jewish prayers speak of Jerusalem, Zion and the Land of Israel. The injunction not to forget Jerusalem, the site of the Temple, is a major tenet of Judaism. The Hebrew language, the Torah, laws in the Talmud, the Jewish calendar and Jewish holidays and festivals such as Shavuot all originated in Israel and revolve around its seasons and conditions. Jews pray toward Jerusalem and recite the words “next year in Jerusalem” every Passover. Jewish religion, culture and history make clear that it is only in the land of Israel that the Jewish commonwealth can be built.

In 1897, Jewish leaders formally organized the Zionist movement, calling for the restoration of the Jewish national home in Palestine, where Jews could find sanctuary and self-determination, and work for the renascence of their civilization and culture.

[UmmZakariya]

so the Arabs asking for a punch up (as you percieve it) justifies the
benign occupation build nice settlements for fanatics on confiscated land, demolish palesinian houses, build great big wall and shoot future terrorists

well at least you agree this is indeed what is happening.

[Mr Sin]

well at least you agree this is indeed what is happening.

You do realize that Israel is in the unprecedented position of sorting out the mess others started UZ.

There would have been no 'occupation' had the Arabs started it. Thats a fact.

Your spinning of Arab Imperialism into Zionist Colonialism is a joke and requires a heady mix of selective amnesia and religious text to prop this fantasy up.

But then again, you'd argue that Israel itself - no matter where it resided in Palestine - is an occupation. Thats certainly true of many here.

So where to now?

[UmmZakariya]

There would have been no 'occupation' had the Arabs started it. Thats a fact.

So again they deserve it right? Just like Arabs started the refugee crisis, and the intifada, you just absolve the Zionists of all blame dont you? Do you think anyone will believe that? Your so deluded. But then you woudl do anything to justify the occuaption and ensure your brother carries on shooting children.

Israel will be getting into a far greater mess...the demographic time bomb is ticking...

[Mr Sin]

UZ - level with me

Would you accept (however grudgingly)a two-state solution(inc East Jersusalem for Palestine)?

[Mr Sin]

Actaully, lets get all the cards on the table.

Could you put up a poll? I'd really appreciate it.

Questions such as:

a) Do you approve of a 2 state solution (Gaza / Wb / EJerus)
b) Would you then recognise Israel (as the Jewish Sate)?
c) Would you be happy to see the outright closure of all militant groups (Hamas, IJ etc) to prevent conflict beyond the creation of Palestine.
d) Would you, under any circumstnaces, accept Israel and would insist upon it's removal?
f) Would you therefore be happy to see Abbas fail and the intifada to continue?
g) Do you accept that Jews have as much right to the Holy Land as Muslims?
h) Do you think that Jews should have a Jewish State?

Thanks

[UmmZakariya]

i have never said anything otherwise, i have constantly said i want an end to the occupation i dont agree with ethnic cleansing or destroying another country (your lot did that) but Israel is destroying itself a two state will not be a viable option for much longer.

[nishath_786]

Two state solution please. And a right of return. Thanks.

[Mr Sin]

Two state solution please. And a right of return. Thanks.

As UZ just wrote a post ago....

.....the demographic time bomb is ticking...

You see the problem.

[UmmZakariya]

You see the problem

its your problem you can solve it but people like you are too busy denying the occupation and the crimes of the Zionists.

[Mr Sin]

How about that poll UZ?

[UmmZakariya]

that isnt a feasible poll, one question leads onto another...

[Mr Sin]

that isnt a feasible poll, one question leads onto another...

Lets make it as simple as possible. And as honest.

a) Would you be willing to recognise and accept Israel once Palestine (inc East Jerusalem) is created

b) Will you never recognize Israel no matter what.

[UmmZakariya]

since you have said you do not recognise any Palestinian state/palestine is jordan etc etc i dont see why i shoudl put this poll up

[Mr Sin]

since you have said you do not recognise any Palestinian state/palestine is jordan etc etc i dont see why i shoudl put this poll up

Are you holding my idea to hostage? Our own little cyberEnbtebbe?

It's a perfectly good request that would be up in a second had someone else suggested it.

[UmmZakariya]

i refer you to my pervious answer and i dont like taking 'suggestions' from Zionists.

[Mr Sin]

i refer you to my pervious answer and i dont like taking 'suggestions' from Zionists.

Your worried about the potential results.

[UmmZakariya]

whatever the result you will stil attack us for any stance so why bother to listen to you?

[Raashid]

MPAC does not hype the Zionist threat enough in my opinion. You still engage in dialogue with the greatest enemies of Islam as if there's anything to debate with them. The Quran clearly states which people have the most hatred for Islam so that should really be enough for all of us.
If you look to any part of the world where Muslims are being killed or persecuted, you only need to scratch the surface to see their involvement which ranges from at best to cheerleader to at worst active participants. They armed the Serbs to exterminate Muslims in Bosnia, they've forged an alliance with India, training them to kill Muslims in Kashmir and Gujurat, they openly expressed their support for the destruction of Chechnya and the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and are even training Chinese commandos in the suppression of Muslims in remote Xinjiang. Enough has been said of their role in calling for the destruction of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt by their acolytes in the USA so there's no need to elaborate on it further.

[UCaliph]

They are probably the only group that i have heard of that actually do something against the zionist.

[UmmZakariya]

You still engage in dialogue with the greatest enemies of Islam as if there's anything to debate with them.

what exactly do you mean by this?

[Mr Sin]

what exactly do you mean by this?


Thats what I was wondering UZ.

[Yahya]

Zionism is a different kind of threat to the BNP.

The BNP are racist thugs but most people know it. There are plenty of people outside of the Muslim community who want to keep them down.

The Zionists are racist thugs but most non-Muslims don't know it. We've got to win them over, just like the Zionists won them over in the past. Anti-Apartheid convinced most whites that South Africa was evil, we can do the same about Israel.

[Mr Sin]

Zionism is a different kind of threat to the BNP.

The BNP are racist thugs but most people know it. There are plenty of people outside of the Muslim community who want to keep them down.

The Zionists are racist thugs but most non-Muslims don't know it. We've got to win them over, just like the Zionists won them over in the past. Anti-Apartheid convinced most whites that South Africa was evil, we can do the same about Israel.

Thats a hell of a challenge given that most whites actually see Islam as the biggest threat since Hitler.

[UmmZakariya]

most whites you speak for them do you?? Most people in this country are actually pro-Palestinian Europe is often denounced by Zionists for being too soft on palestine....so pls dont try and speak for most people...

there is a BNP supporter on this forum he hates us too and is proud of the fact that Jews are members of the BNP ...

[br ash]

Thats a hell of a challenge given that most whites actually see Islam as the biggest threat since Hitler.

Most Anglo Saxons in the UK, do not give too hoots about religion.

Islam is only a threat in eyes of some. The majority of the people who hype on about the threat of Islam are either Zionist or Neo Cons.

Put it this way the IRA in the UK is greater threat to our national security. They have vast arm dumps.

As usual your thinking is no different to the thinking of the likes of Al Qadi and BNP.

Salaam

Ash

[br ash]

most whites you speak for them do you?? Most people in this country are actually pro-Palestinian Europe is often denounced by Zionists for being too soft on palestine....so pls dont try and speak for most people...

there is a BNP supporter on this forum he hates us too and is proud of the fact that Jews are members of the BNP ...

Sister there are Jewish Nutters and also Muslim nutter. Few years back read an article that there was a Muslim who was supporting the BNP, i think it was in Scotland?. He was a Anglo Saxon Muslim.

Salaam


Ash

[sunni]

Aa

yeah there are black as well in the BNP party, funny i asked someone why, they said to lobby them ahahaha, nutters.


think i might join the zionists, someone like Mr Sin like..., a very sinful guy! maybe i can get him back to reality check that palestine is a Muslim land n will be without doubt one day!
n maybe become a loyal servant of islam???? :D n paradise will be for him inshallah or shud i keep dreaming... :thinking:

going back to what bats said, issue of palestine, i fink like sin said is one aspect all have sumfin to unite n discuss, or like battering???? but in the case of muslims i fink it is the case of unity, but how we aim to get back our home well is another point of discussion, but we feel same anger n pain what peeps like Mr Sin are doing!


n i think its one think which motivates us palestine, to participate in politics, kick hell out the nasty zionists, no offence Mr Sin :D
wasalams

[dynamite]

I think the 'Zionist Threat' is over-hyped, muslims in some eyes are seen as haters, jew-bashers etc, and are seen as hardcore and militant. I work with a lot of jews ( i think anyway!!) and most of them just go about thier daily business, and keep themsevles to themselves. They seem to fit in better than muslims. what i think ahould be done, is increase the level of awareness in the UK, of events in the middle east, it is slowly starting to happen, but moren eeds to be done

[Suhail]

I think the Zionist threat is under-hyped. Considering that Israelis one the main reasons that so many of our brothers/sisters live in poverty and die everyday.

It is well known and public that zionists and their sympathesisers have a large influence on the foreign affairs of many countries (in particular America), and therefore hold a large amount of power. The best way, for Israel to be challenged (in the opinion of many) is a UNITED Arab/Muslim world. America has helped spread animosity between Arab/Muslim governments - in particular in the Iran/Iraq war. The power of the zionists is rarely over-hyped but usually under-hyped.

[Yahya]

Thats a hell of a challenge given that most whites actually see Islam as the biggest threat since Hitler.

It's true most non-Muslims have a distorted image of Islam (by the way I happen to be "white") but that doesn't mean that most people don't know right from wrong.

I have a colleague at work who is obviously down on Muslims but when she saw a documentary about Israel barbarism in Palestine, she said she understood wy people wanted to be suicide bombers.

The Anti-Apartheid movement was linked to a realisation on the part of most whites that racism was wrong, and in the process reinforced anti-racist ideas. We know people in the UK and even the USA hate the war in Iraq. We know people in Europe think Israel is a threat to world peace. We know that the anti-war movement has united Muslims and non-Muslims and that anti-BNP activity has done the same. If we all stay in our ghettoes the Zionists and racists will win, so let's not generalise about the "whites" Let's work on finding common ground with those non-Muslims who are willing to address our common concerns.

[Yahya]

I think the Zionist threat is under-hyped. Considering that Israelis one the main reasons that so many of our brothers/sisters live in poverty and die everyday.

It is well known and public that zionists and their sympathesisers have a large influence on the foreign affairs of many countries (in particular America), and therefore hold a large amount of power. The best way, for Israel to be challenged (in the opinion of many) is a UNITED Arab/Muslim world. America has helped spread animosity between Arab/Muslim governments - in particular in the Iran/Iraq war. The power of the zionists is rarely over-hyped but usually under-hyped.

Our unity is essential but it isn't enough. The Zionists have won over America by uniting Jews they have made Zionism mainstream for non-Jews. Israeli will vanish if the West turns its back on it. %85 of its trade is with Europe, sanctions will kill its economy. It gets billions every year from US taxpayers, if they understood what they were paying for, they would understand 9/11. If we unite against them and the West sympathises with Israel... look what's happening to Syria and Iran. We have to convince public opinion here to back off and leave Israel to its well-deserved fate.

[Mr Sin]

most whites you speak for them do you?? Most people in this country are actually pro-Palestinian Europe is often denounced by Zionists for being too soft on palestine....so pls dont try and speak for most people...



Typcal Uz, has a go at me for something then goes right ahead and does it himself!

[Mr Sin]

.. if they understood what they were paying for, they would understand 9/11.

Oh they understand 9/11.

Just not in the way your fooling yourself about it.

[UmmZakariya]

Typcal Uz, has a go at me for something then goes right ahead and does it himself!

herself you idiot and i base that on my experience of the British public and dont Zionists constantly go on about how anti-semitism is returning to Europe jsut cos people are more aware of the oppression of Palestinians and criticise Israel.... Zionists much prefer the biased line taking by the US ...Europe is far more pro-palestinian than the US for example that is what your fellow Zionists say.

[Mr Sin]

...Europe is far more pro-palestinian than the US for example that is what your fellow Zionists say.

Given the treatment of the European Jews, nothing should suprise you.
I wouldn't take any comfort in this though, becuase when they're finished with the synagogues, the mosques will be next.

[UmmZakariya]

being pro-palestinian is not in the least comparable to being anti-semitic you just cant bear anyone disagreeing with the occupation but branding them with being an anti semite thats just stupid and not effective anymore either...


when they're finished with the synagogues, the mosques will be next.
well at least you admit that, and mosques have already been targeted as have whole Muslim communities but we will fight back there are millions of us you know...but most Zionists will insist we are the anti-semites we get far too much attention and we deserve the treatment meted out to the Muslims of Bosnia and they are the real victims just cos Israel was critiscised and they diodnt like it! You are always a competition of victimhood.

[Mr Sin]

being pro-palestinian is not in the least comparable to being anti-semitic .

Don't kid yourself.

Even for the most retarded anti-semite, the classic stereotype myths are easily disguised as a Pro Palestinian front.

And I don't believe in coincidence.

[UmmZakariya]

so that means MPACUK are anti-semitic, all those jews for justice are also anti-semitic as is uri averny the refusniks, and anyone who doesnt agree that Israel is entirely innocent....crying wolf like this doesnt do Israel any favours Sin, no one will take your cries on anti-semitism at the slightest criticism if Israel seriously!

what about the BNP? They are anti semitic right but not pro-palestinian becos they hate Muslims...or are they pro-Israel now becos they have two jewish councillors (both rabidly anti-muslim) huh....

[Yahya]

Given the treatment of the European Jews, nothing should suprise you.
I wouldn't take any comfort in this though, becuase when they're finished with the synagogues, the mosques will be next.


Is Muslims not Jews who are the main racist scapegoays today. Maybe it's time for you to get your priorities straight. I mean, after they come for us they'll probably come for the Jews.

[Mr Sin]

Is Muslims not Jews who are the main racist scapegoays today. Maybe it's time for you to get your priorities straight. I mean, after they come for us they'll probably come for the Jews.

Reminds me of the crusades. Perhaps we should stick together again.

[Mr Sin]

so that means MPACUK are anti-semitic, all those jews for justice are also anti-semitic as is uri averny the refusniks, and anyone who doesnt agree that Israel is entirely innocent....crying wolf like this doesnt do Israel any favours Sin, no one will take your cries on anti-semitism at the slightest criticism if Israel seriously!

....

Yes, all anti-semitic. Totally, completely and utterly.
You wouldn't believe just how entrenched Jew shame is.
It takes either an intifada or easter to reveal it hidden beneath layers of pogroms, holocausts and burnings.

[UmmZakariya]

what a stupid comment...so critiscism of Israel is anti-semitism not wanting to take part in an oppressive occupation is anti-semitism...your not only a racist your facist too...so much for freedom of speech and conscience...no we shoudl all toe the zionist line or Sin will scream anti-semite...well no one buying that.

[Yahya]

Reminds me of the crusades. Perhaps we should stick together again.

I agree. So will you accept the right of Palestinian Muslims and Christians to return to their homeland and live in peace as full citizens? That's all people here are demanding.

[Mr Sin]

I agree. So will you accept the right of Palestinian Muslims and Christians to return to their homeland and live in peace as full citizens? That's all people here are demanding.

I understand your demands, but the War of Independence birthed other refugees. I don't see much in the way of open arms on the Arab Side..do you?

Algeria
During the war for Algerian independence from France in the 1950s and early 1960s, Algerian nationalists carried out violent attacks on Algerian Jews. After the French left, the Algerian authorities issued a variety of anti- Jewish decrees, including the imposition of heavy taxes on the Jewish community. Nearly all of Algeria's 160,000 Jews fled the country. All but one of Algeria's synagogues were seized and turned into mosques.

Egypt
The ancient Jewish community of Egypt numbered over 90,000 by the 1940s. Riots by Egyptian nationalists in 1945 claimed many Jewish lives, and synagogues and Jewish buildings were burned down. A new wave of discrimination and violence was unleashed in 1948. Over 250 Jews were killed or injured, Jewish shops were looted, and Jewish assets were frozen. Some 35,000 Jews left Egypt by 1950. Gamal Abdel Nasser, who seized power in 1954, arrested thousands of Jews and confiscated their property. Emigration reduced Egyptian Jewry to just 8,000 by 1957.

Iraq
The Jews of Iraq, with roots dating back to ancient Babylonia, numbered about 190,000 in 1947. When Israel was established, Jewish emigration was forbidden, and hundreds of Jews were jailed. Those convicted of "Zionism" --a criminal offense-- were sentenced to internal exile or fines of up to $40,000 each. Tens of thousands of Jews slipped out of the country. Then, in 1950, the government legalized emigration and pressured the Jews to leave; by 1952, only 6,000 remained. Jewish emigrants were permitted to take with them only $140 per adult; all of their remaining assets and property were confiscated by the Iraqi government.

Libya
The 2,000 year-old Jewish community of Libya, which numbered almost 60,000 by the 1940s, was the target of mass anti-Jewish violence in November 1945. In Tripoli alone, 120 Jews were massacred, over 500 wounded, 2,000 were made homeless, and synagogues were torched. There were more pogroms in January 1946, with 75 Jews massacred in Zanzur, and more than 100 murdered in other towns. By the early 1950s, more than 40,000 Libyan Jews had emigrated.

Morocco
In 1948, there were about 350,000 Jews living in Morocco, a community with ancient roots going back to the time of the destruction of the First Temple (586 BCE). In June 1948, pogromists massacred 39 Jews in the town of Djerada and 4 more in Oujda. Over 50,000 Jews fled Morocco in terror. During the 1950s, there was violence against Jews in Oujda, Rabat, and Casablanca. Most of Moroccan Jewry emigrated during the years to follow.

Syria
There were 17,000 Jews in Syria in 1948, a community dating back to biblical times. Anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in the Syrian town of Aleppo in 1947. All of the local synagogues were destroyed, and 7,000 of the town's 10,000 Jews fled in terror. The government then enacted legislation to freeze Jewish bank accounts and confiscate Jewish property. By the 1950s, just 5,000 Jews remained in Syria, subjected to harsh decrees; they were banned from emigrating, selling their property, or working in government offices, and were compelled to carry special cards identifying them as Jews.

[UmmZakariya]

Sin cut and pastes version of Zionist history but refuses to accept the evidence from people like Naeim Giladi

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html

I was disillusioned at what I found in the Promised Land, disillusioned personally, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism, disillusioned at what I was beginning to learn about Zionism's cruelties. The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor, especially for the farm work that was beneath the urbanized Eastern European Jews. Ben Gurion needed the "Oriental" Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948.

And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn't return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

Zionist propagandists still maintain that the bombs in Iraq were set off by anti-Jewish Iraqis who wanted Jews out of their country. The terrible truth is that the grenades that killed and maimed Iraqi Jews and damaged their property were thrown by Zionist Jews.

[Yahya]

Mr. Sin - the violence Jews encountered in the Middle East was a by-product of Zionism. Zionist racism generated a paralel racism among Arabs. Personally I think the return of Jews to the Arab world would be a natural consequence of Palestine rejoining the Arab/Islamic world. After all, that was the state of things before racist European Jews started driving Muslim and Christian Arab out of Palestine.

Islamic Spain is the model of a multi-faith society and some of the greatest achievments of Judaism occured in that Islamic land under that Islamic culture.

Of course you'll start quoting to me about Arab/Muslim atrocities, but my advice to you is put your own house in order before you criticise others.

Or do you think only in terms of "us and them" and so long as it's "them" whose suffering who cares.

[St. George]

Tragic. I can sit back and decide which side makes the nicest plume of smoke. You will hate until the end.

[Mr Sin]

Mr. Sin - the violence Jews encountered in the Middle East was a by-product of Zionism. Zionist racism generated a paralel racism among Arabs. .

Yes, it's the all the Jews fault.
And it created a parrallel racism among Germans.

-Hows that for a parallel?

[Yahya]

No, the Germans were entirely to blame.

But look at the dates of all the examples you gave. They all take place in the run-up the establishment of the state of Israel. Just like Palestinian "anti-Semitism" corresponds to the massive influx of Zionist settlers in the 20s and the massive increase in evictions of Palestian peasant farmers they carried out.

What the Germans are to blame for is the creation of a vicious uncompromising racist nationalism among a minority of Jews, who came to believe that the only way to avoid becoming victims again was to victimise others.

In that regard, I refer you to the quote from the Qur'an below.

[Yahya]

Tragic. I can sit back and decide which side makes the nicest plume of smoke. You will hate until the end.

What hate? I said I'd hope for the return of Jews to Cairo, Damascus, Baghdad etc.

Hamas, the most determined of Paslestinian groups state in their constitution that they want to live in peace with Jews and Christians in an Islamic Palestine.

Even the most liberal leftist Zionist party denies Palestinians their right of return to their homeland.

It's easy to throw up your hands in disgust and say a curse on both your houses. But I think that's another example of confusing oppressor and oppressed.

Ask yourself - Who has a country with a huge army and arsenal of nukes and who has no country at all?

[Mr Sin]

Ask yourself - Who has a country with a huge army and arsenal of nukes and who has no country at all?

Well, go blame the Arab nations who vetoed BOTH Israel and Palestine back in 48. Then attacked.

It must make you wonder what would have been if things had been different and the baby wasn't thrown out with the bath water.

[UmmZakariya]

Sin has no intention of pursuing an honest dialogue only in repeating Zionist myths and revising history to justify Israeli aggression. He actually denies an occupation exists and the right of self-determination to Palestinians. He doesnt want things to be different he wants to perpetuate the suffering of the Palestinians he thinks they deserve it. There is no point having dialogue with this unrealistic partner for peace.

[Raashid]

At last Umm Z, you're beginning to see things my way...

[UmmZakariya]

raashid i have said the above many times and you may not have the knowledge to argue with a Zionist but when he posts his myths and propaganda on here i have a duty to refute it so others are not taken in by the lies...the point i am making is it is obvious he just wants to recycle myths and does not feel an inkling of humanity towards those under occupation indeed he denies an occupation exists. It is the ZIonists who are not partners for peace and this is what the Palestinians are up against it should only encourage us to support them even more.

[Mr Sin]

Your anti-Israel stance increases in direct proportion to your avoidance in dealing with the Arab regimes who rely on you to help perpetuate thier power.

I thought you might have gathered this much by now.

That makes you, ultimatley, albeit naively, anti-Palestinian.

[UmmZakariya]

posting rubbish as usual many people on here have constantly said they do not support corrupt Arab regimes, however you ignore this...this is your avoidance.

[Mr Sin]

posting rubbish as usual many people on here have constantly said they do not support corrupt Arab regimes, however you ignore this...this is your avoidance.

There's one thing not supporting the Arab regimes, it another actually doing something about it.

That's your avoidance. And your responsibilty and surely you owe it to those school girls in Saudi Arabia.

You've been manipulted becuase a scapegoat is always preferrable than a solution. Here, even I can symapthise with your compulsions.
But nothing, but nothing, suits all those Kings and princess better than a Palestinian child getting killed.

And make no mistake about it, as long as you fail to even ply 1% of your venom against Israel towards these regimes, the suffering of the Palestine Arabs will persist. See it as an insurance policy.

Can't you see why?

[UmmZakariya]

So basically leave Israel alone let Zionists grab more land shoot more children and build more settlements and look the other way....no i dont think so. I dotn like Arab regimes and i support change therein and it is slowly happening democratic reforms are taking place in several countries...and pls dont forget the Arab countries you complain so much about are also supported by Israel's best friend the US give the same advice to them first!

Hypocrite.

[Mr Sin]

[QUOTE= I dotn like Arab regimes and i support change therein and it is slowly happening democratic reforms are taking place in several countries...
[/QUOTE]

Really...where?

[UmmZakariya]

in Saudi, bahrain, Oman and others read the BBC you idiot and do your own research...Arabs will improve their lot and thats what scares Zionists like you most.

I think we can conclude MPACUK need to 'hype up' the Zionists threat even more, as we can see from our resident Zionist they dont let up propagating their lies and myths and baiting Muslims.