Saudi man kills daughter "for converting to Christianity"

[yorkshire observer]

You have muslim friends who are so happy to live in a secular society have you well maybe they are just ignorant or maybe they are not that practising but for sure the chance of having an Islamic state will not be allowed by the USA or UK they are happy with their puppet regimes that they put in place in Syria Afghanistan Iraq etc

As soon as they hear of an Islamic state being formed such as Afghanistan or Somalia they have to bomb it to bits and kill the rulers.


Don't you have somalian friends? they were very happy with the Shariah rulers they had, in fact they had peace for the first time in many many years until the USA heard the word shariah so it gave the Ethiopians all the weapons it needed to invade Somalia. Of course Ethiopia is a christian country so its ok to give them tanks planes etc to kill muslims even though they don't have food to eat even in Ethiopia.

You want to attribute hatred and killing to muslims but you are blind and stupid in fact very very stupid in your comments cos you don't see who are the real aggressors, who are the people invading and occupying muslim lands?

Oh yes Y.O. and your ilk we are sooooooooo full of hate and sooooooooo stupid, that we can't even see whats happening in the world.
Oh yes, Lily, the Muslims I know couldn't hold a candle to the intellectual prowess you display time and again on here.
But you've made me chuckle again. Top quality comedy reference to Somalia. I think you're right to hold up Somalia as a prime example of the way ahead for Islam.
Can you refer to Sudan in your next post as well?
By the way, what's a Muslim land?

[rf-uk]

Oh yes Y.O. and your ilk we are sooooooooo full of hate and sooooooooo stupid

Wonder if the mods consider that personal insult?

[JerseyLily]

Ummmmmm..... where exactly were you living again, Lily?

One of the conditions that we are even allowed to live in dar ul kufr is that we have made an intention to make hijra in the future.

It is a very deep subject the permissibility of living in a non muslim country and as I have stated on this forum before I am here because of family commitments.

Most muslims in this country are living here because the British messed up their countries so much that they had to leave.

[Rehaam]

Your problem is Lumi that people on here can apparently have earnest conversations about whether it's ok to persecute someone for their religious belief depending on what it says in scripture.
When that's your starting point, your heart's already lost in the first place.
And sweetiepie your first comment underlines what I was saying. Thank you.
I agree his heart is lost.....
Totally ..this sweetie pie or naughtly little girl as I think he prefers to be called ... Is totally lost when it comes to continuing a conversation....he so tries to bully and intimidate....how can you have a conversation when you accuse dont provide proof yet ask for explanations....something funda MENTALY wrong - Im going to ask again watch what happens...watch what happens ;)

(Peoples hearts are lost - there should have been no mention about taking this woman to the authorities for any kind of punishment ...any punishment against her should have been 100% rejected....sometimes Im really not surprised non muslims dislike Islam when we have such a twisted representation of it...but it is a good religion...and people ought to be able to educate themselves on it rather then be influenced by heresay)


oh - Rehaam stop trying to manipulate my post - seems as you are not totally with it.... Let me explain - I meant, you reject thingss which are halal and haraam and the way we (muslim) - traditionally -practise the five pillars.....

Yes I think weve figured out what your babbling on about - it would be useful in conversation if you backed what you said with proof?

Are you getting a bit closer to whats required....

Let me try again...QUOTE ME SAYING I REJECT THE FIVE PILLARS....

No more Babble quotes.....

Banging on the loudest doesnt make you right - it just shows how empty you are....

[JerseyLily]

Don't know. Perhaps you just hate yourself...

You are not the only one aboard. And before your stupidity infects others, I rather apply some spread some medicine...
:p

The Quaran is medicine

Yunus - 10:57
O mankind! There has come to you a good advice from your Lord (i.e. the Qur'an, ordering all that is good and forbidding all that is evil), and a healing for that (disease of ignorance, doubt, hypocrisy and differences, etc.) in your breasts, - a guidance and a mercy (explaining lawful and unlawful things, etc.) for the believers. (Yunus 10:57)

So lets spread more Quran around at least its a book that we can believe in unlike the Bible which even the so named christians don't even believe in any more

[Rehaam]

Always twisting words of others, aren't you. Islamic law is derived from Quran and Sunnah. You believe that only Quran is the source. This is what we disagree about.

Well what we do agree about is that

1) Quran has been offered the protection of God - in that it doesnt change
2) As youve discovered the Quran doesnt punish peaceful apostacy.....

:)

[JerseyLily]

Oh yes, Lily, the Muslims I know couldn't hold a candle to the intellectual prowess you display time and again on here.
But you've made me chuckle again. Top quality comedy reference to Somalia. I think you're right to hold up Somalia as a prime example of the way ahead for Islam.
Can you refer to Sudan in your next post as well?
By the way, what's a Muslim land?

You are just showing your ignorance Y.O. because somali had the peace for the first time under the Union of Islamic courts.

Your constant attempts at put downs just don't wash do they when the evidence of the truth is there for everyone to find.

All you lot can do is try to say some one is stupid cos they believe in Islam or stupid cos they don't agree with you or stupid and unintellectual cos you can't win an arguement loool

[yorkshire observer]

You are just showing your ignorance Y.O. because somali had the peace for the first time under the Union of Islamic courts.

Your constant attempts at put downs just don't wash do they when the evidence of the truth is there for everyone to find.

All you lot can do is try to say some one is stupid cos they believe in Islam or stupid cos they don't agree with you or stupid and unintellectual cos you can't win an arguement loool
Oh Lily, you never disappoint. The Union of Islamic Courts? Peace delivered by being the most powerful oppressors of all, you are top drawer comedy.
You really should read 1984.

[JerseyLily]

Oh Lily, you never disappoint. The Union of Islamic Courts? Peace delivered by being the most powerful oppressors of all, you are top drawer comedy.
You really should read 1984.

As your somali friends then I am sure there must be some living near you since their country is virtually uninhabitable.

[CasualVisitor]

So lets spread more Quran around
Just another book you haven't read, Lily. What's the difference?

[JerseyLily]

Just another book you haven't read, Lily. What's the difference?

Liar ! Can't defend your own religion so lie about me........... low very very low:thumbsdn:

You have read the bible but you don't believe it is the word of God just a nice little history book of legends awwwwwwwwwwww Hans Christian Anderson for big boys!

[CasualVisitor]

You have read the bible but you don't believe it is the word of God just a nice little history book of legends

When the preacher reads a passage, in which the Lord gives off statements (OT),or in which Jesus speaks (NT), then IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!
That still does not negate that the Lord would say different in these present times! His words were meant for the people - and in the cases of deuteronomy this means the people of this time!
If you can't get this into your head, then I am really sorry for you!
Need I say more? Nope.
That is: YES:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
So rejoice, Lily!
;)

[andrewbrown]

You have read the bible but you don't believe it is the word of God just a nice little history book of legends awwwwwwwwwwww Hans Christian Anderson for big boys!

That's a very ignorant statement. I refer to my post #188.

[Rehaam]

One of the conditions that we are even allowed to live in dar ul kufr is that we have made an intention to make hijra in the future.

It is a very deep subject the permissibility of living in a non muslim country and as I have stated on this forum before I am here because of family commitments.

Most muslims in this country are living here because the British messed up their countries so much that they had to leave.

I never accept the argument that the Brits messed up anyones country...if muslims are muslims and the ummah is one then how come we have Paleistein, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Iraq? When there is a good number of muslim countries in Arabia, Asia and Africa and they have all the resources.....Muslims/individuals allowed for their countries to be messed up after being thrown scraps by the Brits and US....dont get me wrong Im not justifying the Brits they are no better than scavengers and opportunists.....but we allowed them in...

Not true most muslims are living here because they are actually free to make a living and to practice their religion with some integrity....have you ever been to Pakistan to know what its like there? - they dont have free education, social services, free health services...a woman cant live on her own or go to work without being majorly harrassed....woman that go to the police to make a complaint of harrassment or run away from home get raped by the police...higly currupt politicians ...what did RF-UK say? ... weak as a Pakistanis politicians integrity lol! And hes right....so I understand what you are saying no ones going to go and live in Iraq - but whos to blame for the US going in? - who didnt defend? And was it easier to live there or in the UK with Sadam ruling? Who should have fixed that problem....?

Living in the UK isnt perfect and it has its major flaws....but comparatively it is one of the better countries to live in which is why alot of us do live here...and use its resources...

[JerseyLily]

Need I say more? Nope.
That is: YES:

So rejoice, Lily!
;)

Which is why we accept that when the bible says "God says" ........ that it is most probably in agreement with the Quran its all the added bit and pieces that we don't accept as the truth.

[JerseyLily]

I never accept the argument that the Brits messed up anyones country...if muslims are muslims and the ummah is one then how come we have Paleistein, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Iraq? When there is a good number of muslim countries in Arabia, Asia and Africa and they have all the resources.....Muslims/individuals allowed for their countries to be messed up after being thrown scraps by the Brits and US....dont get me wrong Im not justifying the Brits they are no better than scavengers and opportunists.....but we allowed them in...

Not true most muslims are living here because they are actually free to make a living and to practice their religion with some integrity....have you ever been to Pakistan to know what its like there? - they dont have free education, social services, free health services...a woman cant live on her own or go to work without being majorly harrassed....woman that go to the police to make a complaint of harrassment or run away from home get raped by the police...higly currupt politicians ...what did RF-UK say? ... weak as a Pakistanis politicians integrity lol! And hes right....so I understand what you are saying no ones going to go and live in Iraq - but whos to blame for the US going in? - who didnt defend? And was it easier to live there or int he UK with Sadam ruling? Who should have fixed that problem....?

Living in the UK isnt perfect and it has its major flaws....but comparatively it is one of the better countries to live in which is why alot of us do live here...and use its resources...

You don't accept history then as well as you don't accept Hadith !

[Rehaam]

You don't accept history then as well as you don't accept Hadith !

er ok....good answer...:thumbup:

And you cant accept the truth...hence the defensive answer...are you related to Lumy?

Which hadees have you taken over banging on about?? (lets see if she has an answer - we know the original 'little naughty girl' didnt...)

Seeing you have the right to judge other muslims surely being a good muslim and going to a muslim country would come over and above conveniently put 'family committments?'

But I guess they dont...every one can talk the talk....walk the walk before you start questionning me....

Silly defensive response...now back up the hadees claim...if youve got any back bone....or then there will be two naughty girls on this thread... :)

[drepf]

You have muslim friends who are so happy to live in a secular society have you well maybe they are just ignorant or maybe they are not that practising but for sure the chance of having an Islamic state will not be allowed by the USA or UK they are happy with their puppet regimes that they put in place in Syria Afghanistan Iraq etc

As soon as they hear of an Islamic state being formed such as Afghanistan or Somalia they have to bomb it to bits and kill the rulers.


Don't you have somalian friends? they were very happy with the Shariah rulers they had, in fact they had peace for the first time in many many years until the USA heard the word shariah so it gave the Ethiopians all the weapons it needed to invade Somalia. Of course Ethiopia is a christian country so its ok to give them tanks planes etc to kill muslims even though they don't have food to eat even in Ethiopia.

You want to attribute hatred and killing to muslims but you are blind and stupid in fact very very stupid in your comments cos you don't see who are the real aggressors, who are the people invading and occupying muslim lands?

Oh yes Y.O. and your ilk we are sooooooooo full of hate and sooooooooo stupid, that we can't even see whats happening in the world.

Taleban's Afghanistan a shining example of your ideal Islamic state.....:rolleyes:
Best admired as you do, from a safe distance in a comfy liberal democracy where women are allowed education and employment. And benefits of course.

The people "occupying" Afghanistan were the Taleban- are you so blinkered you can't see that? Who voted for them? Who invited them to take over?
But rule by fear and oppression is fine by you if it's "Islamic"....
Anyone smell hypocrisy?

[rf-uk]

I think a lot of Muslims will read WeakLily's comments and cringe. She really does flesh out the Islamic stereotype. Most Muslims would not support murdering their own flesh and blood due to apostacy (or having a paper stating so).

The thing is I feel sorry for her. And I am not Muslim!

[Rehaam]

Taleban's Afghanistan a shining example of your ideal Islamic state.....:rolleyes:
Best admired as you do, from a safe distance in a comfy liberal democracy where women are allowed education and employment. And benefits of course.

The people "occupying" Afghanistan were the Taleban- are you so blinkered you can't see that? Who voted for them? Who invited them to take over?
But rule by fear and oppression is fine by you if it's "Islamic"....
Anyone smell hypocrisy?

Just a little bit.... :rolleyes:

Maybe she doesnt know of the woman that have been beheaded in Afghanistan...or strung high by a crane in Iran....neither of what one group of Somalians have been doing to the other in Somalia....before the Ethiopians kicked in.....


I think a lot of Muslims will read WeakLily's comments and cringe. She really does flesh out the Islamic stereotype. Most Muslims would not support murdering their own flesh and blood due to apostacy (or having a paper stating so).

The thing is I feel sorry for her. And I am not Muslim!

How do you think muslims feel when we come under the same umbrella as Lumi and JL - but really we have very little in common....

[Illuminate]

I agree his heart is lost.....
Totally ..this sweetie pie or naughtly little girl as I think he prefers to be called ... Is totally lost when it comes to continuing a conversation....he so tries to bully and intimidate....how can you have a conversation when you accuse dont provide proof yet ask for explanations....something funda MENTALY wrong - Im going to ask again watch what happens...watch what happens ;)

YO, you have made Rehaam jealous - lol.... Rehaam is a boy - so flirt with him, instead of me ;) - as Rehaam said I am girl/female :rolleyes: so no use flirting with me....

You have a *** atheist who can't resist making sexual innuendos at me - and then you have a god alone muslim atheist - who can't resist give me lots of :) - lol.... you two should leave me alone and get together - you two make the ideal couple - it would be bonnie and clyde at their best..... LOL @ Rehaam and YO :D

yes - Rehaam you have to turn to YO - the standard bearer of your morality - to defend your god only stance - and the rejection of the way traditionally the five pillars of islam are practise...


Yes I think weve figured out what your babbling on about - it would be useful in conversation if you backed what you said with proof?

Are you getting a bit closer to whats required....

Let me try again...QUOTE ME SAYING I REJECT THE FIVE PILLARS....

No more Babble quotes.....

Banging on the loudest doesnt make you right - it just shows how empty you are....
SO my previous post was - check mate then Rehaam
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

your double talk, your deception, your manipualtion - is there all to see.. I am babbling on and nor being the loudeist - I am stating how it is..

On this very thread, you have clearly stated you don't hold the sunnah the teaching of the prophet (saw) with any reverence - admit it - you don't accept the traditional five pillars and don't hold them in any esteem.... how can you, with what you spouted out..

In the end, you will get your come-uppance -as you are destroying yourself spiritually - which will lead to your destruction, in this world and next........ You continue to dodge, side step relevant question - your problem is with islam and quran itself.. I am stating how it is from your own very posts.. on this thread..

You said earlier you will embarrass me and shame me.... Do you know what Rehaam - I want to be embarrassed and shame by you - as this will proof that I was wrong about you - it will make me very happy indeed for you - All you need to do is state how you practise the five pillars - all five - each in turn..

If you did that and were sincere (which I know you are not) - you would make me the laughing stock on this thread - I will have to hang my head in shame - BUT I will be soooo happy for you, as I have enough sincerity and haya (shame) to admit I was wrong....

Come on Rehaam embarrass and shame me - there is only one way to do that - I will be very happy to be put down by you - if you hold the traditionally five pillars with absolutely certainty.....


in your next post, don't use, your sweet-pie )YO) as a middle man - :LOL:

[mareyah]

the occupants of afghanistan, whoever they might be, and who are causing harm to the citizens will be condemned. in terms of justice wrong cannot be made right and vice versa, whatever the means, and results are used.

with regards to this man killing his daughter, as far as shariah is concerned [i have come to understand of] one is not allowed to take the life of another being without going through all the procedures of a fair and just trial...

quite evil to use the hadiths and the Qur'an for a slinging match.

[Rehaam]

YO, you have made Rehaam jealous - lol.... Rehaam is a boy - so flirt with him, instead of me ;) - as Rehaam said I am girl/female :rolleyes: so no use flirting with me....

You have a *** atheist who can't resist making sexual innuendos at me - and then you have a god alone muslim atheist - who can't resist give me lots of :) - lol.... you two should leave me alone and get together - you two make the ideal couple - it would be bonnie and clyde at their best..... LOL @ Rehaam and YO :D

yes - Rehaam you have to turn to YO - the standard bearer of your morality - to defend your god only stance - and the rejection of the way traditionally the five pillars of islam are practise...

SO my previous post was - check mate then Rehaam
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

your double talk, your deception, your manipualtion - is there all to see.. I am babbling on and nor being the loudeist - I am stating how it is..

On this very thread, you have clearly stated you don't hold the sunnah the teaching of the prophet (saw) with any reverence - admit it - you don't accept the traditional five pillars and don't hold them in any esteem.... how can you, with what you spouted out..

In the end, you will get your come-uppance -as you are destroying yourself spiritually - which will lead to your destruction, in this world and next........ You continue to dodge, side step relevant question - your problem is with islam and quran itself.. I am stating how it is from your own very posts.. on this thread..

You said earlier you will embarrass me and shame me.... Do you know what Rehaam - I want to be embarrassed and shame by you - as this will proof that I was wrong about you - it will make me very happy indeed for you - All you need to do is state how you practise the five pillars - all five - each in turn..

If you did that and were sincere (which I know you are not) - you would make me the laughing stock on this thread - I will have to hang my head in shame - BUT I will be soooo happy for you, as I have enough sincerity and haya (shame) to admit I was wrong....

Come on Rehaam embarrass and shame me - there is only one way to do that - I will be very happy to be put down by you - if you hold the traditionally five pillars with absolutely certainty.....


in your next post, don't use, your sweet-pie )YO) as a middle man - :LOL:

If you had any embarrasssment or shame you would have backed up your accusations re my 5 pillars....

No quotes? Not surprised - I just wanted to see if I could get a knee jerk reaction out of you - and I did lol....

[rf-uk]

Anyone smell hypocrisy?

*sniff* *sniff*

Yup.

[JerseyLily]

er ok....good answer...:thumbup:

And you cant accept the truth...hence the defensive answer...are you related to Lumy?

Which hadees have you taken over banging on about?? (lets see if she has an answer - we know the original 'little naughty girl' didnt...)

Seeing you have the right to judge other muslims surely being a good muslim and going to a muslim country would come over and above conveniently put 'family committments?'

But I guess they dont...every one can talk the talk....walk the walk before you start questionning me....

Silly defensive response...now back up the hadees claim...if youve got any back bone....or then there will be two naughty girls on this thread... :)

ok then which of the hadith do you believe in ?

All of sahih bukhari?
part of it?

Sahih Muslim

tell us what you believe in so that you can end the speculation.

[mareyah]

*sniff* *sniff*

Yup.

do you ever make any good worthwhile posts to actually 'read'? :confused:

[rf-uk]

Come on Rehaam embarrass and shame me

Errrrrrmmmmmmm I think Rehaam has already destroyed your argument. Comprehensively.

Rehaam can retain religious identity without being mindless-fundo-barbaric-armchair-wanna-be jihadist.

[Illuminate]

er ok....good answer...:thumbup:

And you cant accept the truth...hence the defensive answer...are you related to Lumy?

Which hadees have you taken over banging on about?? (lets see if she has an answer - we know the original 'little naughty girl' didnt...)

Seeing you have the right to judge other muslims surely being a good muslim and going to a muslim country would come over and above conveniently put 'family committments?'

But I guess they dont...every one can talk the talk....walk the walk before you start questionning me....

Silly defensive response...now back up the hadees claim...if youve got any back bone....or then there will be two naughty girls on this thread... :)
more of your insults at other members of the forum..
your problem is with quran and islam itself.... you want to quran and islam to adhere to liberal secualrism - which this country is - yet you can't see the fundamental flaws in this country - to the point, that you have been blinded by it.. What you are only concern about is yourself - as long as you are happy - everything else is irrelevant - You are a selfless, individualistic and inward looking person - all you care about is materialism and nothing else...

Allah says in the quran:

If you turn back (from islam and obidience to Allah), He will exchange you for some other people, then they would not be like you! - (47:38)

The very two ppl you are belittling and mocking are converts - they are defending islam - whilst you attack it - with your anti-islam, anti-hadith and anti-quran opinions and views... I am glad there are ppl like JL and Abdul Hafiz around - when I see ppl like that - it reminds of that verse... Maybe you should look carefully at the two ppl you spending your time mocking...

You haven't even spoken out against the attcks which the the anti-islam brigade have spouted out against the islam/muslim and quran - yet you want to attack and mock muslims and converts - how sad Rehaam.... ppl like you drive ppl away from islam..

You were born in a sunni family - yet you reject sunni islam docterinces - you have two converts who defend islam - from your ilk - It makes very happy to see ppl like JL and AH around - rather than your ilk...

This verse's sums up what you stand for - as I quoted before to you:

O you who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if you have wisdom. (3:118)

you are pathetic Rehaam - born muslims like you are a disgrace to islam...you are no different to the radicals and fundamentalist - like I said you are no different to salman rushdie, yasmin brown and their ilk.... You want islam to be the very thing it oppose's...

[Illuminate]

Errrrrrmmmmmmm I think Rehaam has already destroyed your argument. Comprehensively.

Rehaam can retain religious identity without being mindless-fundo-barbaric-armchair-wanna-be jihadist.
really - what arguement was that rf-uk and how has she destroyed it... she hasn't even replied with anythin gof substance, rather she has avoided the issue altogether..

it is flattening to see how non-muslim, anti-islamic stooges, ppl support Rehaam and her ilk - as her views and docterines are nothing to do with islam. quran at all - Her views are just based on liberal secualrism - the very thing islam oppose's....

Like I said, Rehaam is no different from salman Rushdie, ed hussian, yasmin brown and their ilk - which anti-islam forces support, manipulate and use to attack islam/muslim...

It proves I was right about her all along... Thank you rf-uk...

[rf-uk]

It proves I was right about her all along... Thank you rf-uk...

You haven't proved anything.

What you cannot comprehend is that muslims and non-muslims can co-exist in a CIVILISED society (note the deliberate uppercase).

Now I know you may find that difficult to bear....... but it is true.

[Illuminate]

If you had any embarrasssment or shame you would have backed up your accusations re my 5 pillars....

No quotes? Not surprised - I just wanted to see if I could get a knee jerk reaction out of you - and I did lol....
yet again you failed to reponse - and instead resort to mocking and resort to derisive means....

rf-uk - is this what you meant she has destroyed my arguement - obviously your ilk, wouldn't know how to construct an arguement together - to destroy...

I put up a post, giving reference to what you spouted out on this thread - showing how you can't never accept the five pillars - and the way they are practised:
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

You are turning to deciet, deception and manipulation - typically.....

the bottom line, you can't have any reverence for the five pillars - you are anti-islam, anti-quran and anti hadith - YOU reject every thing about islamic values - and place liberal secularism to what you stand for... You are a disgrace to islam and muslims.... In the end you will get your come-uppance sooner or later...

[Rehaam]

YO, you have made Rehaam jealous - lol.... Rehaam is a boy - so flirt with him, instead of me - as Rehaam said I am girl/female :rolleyes: so no use flirting with me....

You have a *** atheist who can't resist making sexual innuendos at me - and then you have a god alone muslim atheist - who can't resist give me lots of - lol.... you two should leave me alone and get together - you two make the ideal couple - it would be bonnie and clyde at their best..... LOL @ Rehaam and YO :D


blah blah blah


yes - Rehaam you have to turn to YO - the standard bearer of your morality - to defend your god only stance - and the rejection of the way traditionally the five pillars of islam are practise...

yes of course - and i have asked you for quotes evidencing my rejection but no quotes just blah... blah... blah...


SO my previous post was - check mate then Rehaam
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

your double talk, your deception, your manipualtion - is there all to see.. I am babbling on and nor being the loudeist - I am stating how it is..

On this very thread, you have clearly stated you don't hold the sunnah the teaching of the prophet (saw) with any reverence - admit it - you don't accept the traditional five pillars and don't hold them in any esteem.... how can you, with what you spouted out..


Blay blah - I know you are .......5/6 posts latter still no evidence of me rejecting 5 pillars...no quotes, no evidence...just blah...b..l..a..h.. ........ b....l...a....h.

More to come....


In the end, you will get your come-uppance -as you are destroying yourself spiritually - which will lead to your destruction, in this world and next........ You continue to dodge, side step relevant question - your problem is with islam and quran itself.. I am stating how it is from your own very posts.. on this thread..

You said earlier you will embarrass me and shame me.... Do you know what Rehaam - I want to be embarrassed and shame by you - as this will proof that I was wrong about you - it will make me very happy indeed for you - All you need to do is state how you practise the five pillars - all five - each in turn..

If you did that and were sincere (which I know you are not) - you would make me the laughing stock on this thread - I will have to hang my head in shame - BUT I will be soooo happy for you, as I have enough sincerity and haya (shame) to admit I was wrong....

I havnt done enough yet? - called you a liar many many times...you still want more? - ok them Illuminate you have accused me of rejecting the 5 pillars of Islam bring your evidence of where I did that by quoting me....Ive asked you 6 or 7 times? And you still havnt done that why is that? do you have no shame or embarrassment?



Come on Rehaam embarrass and shame me - there is only one way to do that - I will be very happy to be put down by you - if you hold the traditionally five pillars with absolutely certainty.....

in your next post, don't use, your sweet-pie )YO) as a middle man - :LOL:

C'mon, you dont have any......stop pretending....unless you can get the quotes this time - but I dont think you can because there arnt any ..just like you have no shame or embarrassment....
Not surprised - I just wanted to see if I could get a knee jerk reaction out of you - and I did lol.... :) Youre so predicatable :) Sweet pie and the naughty little girl that you are.....

[Prague Spring]

really - what arguement was that rf-uk and how has she destroyed it... she hasn't even replied with anythin gof substance, rather she has avoided the issue altogether..

it is flattening to see how non-muslim, anti-islamic stooges, ppl support Rehaam and her ilk - as her views and docterines are nothing to do with islam. quran at all - Her views are just based on liberal secualrism - the very thing islam oppose's....

Like I said, Rehaam is no different from salman Rushdie, ed hussian, yasmin brown and their ilk - which anti-islam forces support, manipulate and use to attack islam/muslim...

It proves I was right about her all along... Thank you rf-uk...

Thank you god Illuminate, that "Rehaam and her ilk" are the voices being listened to by our blinkered, politically-correct liberal elite. Because the day they finally learn the view of the 'real' Muslims like you living among them will be the day you'll find Muslims are no longer tolerated in our society.

[Illuminate]

You haven't proved anything.

What you cannot comprehend is that muslims and non-muslims can co-exist in a CIVILISED society (note the deliberate uppercase).

Now I know you may find that difficult to bear....... but it is true.
have I said otherwise - if you read through my missives on this forum - I have said that myself...

I believe in civilisations (plural) not civilisation - muslim and non-muslim have co-existed for century - to the point that when muslim left spain (andalus) jews came with the muslims - as they felt more secure than being in the hands of christians... The coptic christians and muslims have co-existed for centuries and I can go on..

You don't even know what we are discussing - do you - maybe you should keep your nose out of what I am discussing with Rehaam..

ppl like Rehaam just use ppl to get what they want - that what she is doing with you non-muslims on this thread... she is cleverly and deviously using ppl not to answer what I am asking for her - which has nothing to do co-existing...

Yeah, I know what you mean by the civilsied society (upper-case) - when bush said you are with us or against us - the civilised world said to bush - no we are not with you or bin laden - as al-qaeda made similar statement - My question to ppl like you - who go on about civilised (upper-case) who side are you on the uncivislied (bush, blair, binny) - or the civilised (those who say not to them)...

[Rehaam]

ok then which of the hadith do you believe in ?

All of sahih bukhari?
part of it?

Sahih Muslim

tell us what you believe in so that you can end the speculation.

Do you think you are that important that I need to end speculation with you?

If you have read my threads and have any problem with any of the sunah I disbelieve in then quote me ...make sure they are relevant to the thread.... otherwise on your bike...dont play these silly games with me...Im not answerable to you...

[Rehaam]

do you ever make any good worthwhile posts to actually 'read'? :confused:

I think he does...


Thank you god Illuminate, that "Rehaam and her ilk" are the voices being listened to by our blinkered, politically-correct liberal elite. Because the day they finally learn the view of the 'real' Muslims like you living among them will be the day you'll find Muslims are no longer tolerated in our society.

How do you think people of my ilk feel we actually have to be associated with these people......just because they call themselves muslim....
and I can totally understand your sentiments...mulsims want their rights in the UK to even teach in a childrens school while wearing a niqaab because we are muslim and believe in equality but give someone a 'fair trial' for becoming a Christian in muslim country.......hypocracy.....

[Illuminate]

Rehaam: Let me just say...

I want to be proved wrong - and embarrassed and shame up - it will make me glad and happy for you... If you think, I am happy to be right about you, then you are very mistaken and not understood me...



blah blah blah
so you can't reply


yes of course - and i have asked you for quotes evidencing my rejection but no quotes just blah... blah... blah...
I have stated what you have said on this thread - you can't possible accept the five pillars with your docteines



Blay blah - I know you are .......5/6 posts latter still no evidence of me rejecting 5 pillars...no quotes, no evidence...just blah...b..l..a..h.. ........ b....l...a....h.
you turning to repetition - sign you have a parrot on your head - who is saying get this (insert expletive) out of my backside... :D


I havnt done enough yet? - called you a liar many many times...you still want more? - ok them Illuminate you have accused me of rejecting the 5 pillars of Islam bring your evidence of where I did that by quoting me....Ive asked you 6 or 7 times? And you still havnt done that why is that? do you have no shame or embarrassment?

calling some one a liar - is not embarrasing anyone - it is a sign of someone who is on the defensive - if this your idea of embarrassing someone - then obviously you have a low threshold on how embarrassing someone...

For the accusation of being called a liar to stick you have to clarify what your beliefs are - which you have to do - until you do this - then this accusation of being called a liar won't stick


C'mon, you dont have any......stop pretending....unless you can get the quotes this time - but I dont think you can because there arnt any ..just like you have no shame or embarrassment....
Not surprised - I just wanted to see if I could get a knee jerk reaction out of you - and I did lol.... :) Youre so predicatable :) Sweet pie and the naughty little girl that you are.....
ok my sweetie pie and my naughty little sister.... plenty of :) :) again
oooooooooh - JL - maybe you can check Rehaam out for me - I can book her in for wife number 101 - loooool

See my opening comment on this post

[rf-uk]

You don't even know what we are discussing - do you - maybe you should keep your nose out of what I am discussing with Rehaam..

I am sticking to the topic of the thread...... You should too right?

OK I am glad you do believe in a peaceful civilised society. But your posts don't really highlight this.......

I don't have time to go through all your posts on this site, but from what has been said on this thread you seem to be against condemning a father in Saudi Arabia for killing his daughter for converting to a different religion. In fact you support such action stating that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to do so in the circumstances.

So this is a clear example of an intolerant attitude you have towards other religions and peoples right to choose which god to follow. I do accept that you base this on your understanding of your religion and have been at pains to explain where/why your religion states that this is ok, but THIS IS NOT COMPATABLE WITH A CIVILISED SOCIETY IN 2008.

[Rehaam]

You don't even know what we are discussing - do you - maybe you should keep your nose out of what I am discussing with Rehaam..


No thats ok lumy hes welcome.....as long as we learn about each other ;)

By the way even I dont know what youre discussing.....:D

I dont think you do either....



maybe you can check Rehaam out for me - I can book her in for wife number 101 - loooool

..keep your personal fantasies to yourself...perv...
Sounds like a good muslim man.....modesty and shame....or an Arab king....Im not into little girls...but you might be - is that why you justify hadees where consumating marriage with little girls is ok??

Of topic.....I know :)

[Illuminate]

Thank you god Illuminate, that "Rehaam and her ilk" are the voices being listened to by our blinkered, politically-correct liberal elite. Because the day they finally learn the view of the 'real' Muslims like you living among them will be the day you'll find Muslims are no longer tolerated in our society.
Thanks for tell us, how Rehaam is not a real muslim - we knew that already...

yeah, off course you want to listen to Rehaam, salman rushdie, ed hussien and their ilk... so ppl like you can destory the very last normatitive religion - so their is no islam left...

hey - Rehaam, even your anti-islam supporters see you as not a real muslim - LOL @ Rehaam

as Allah say in the quran: they will not be happy with you, until you follow their religion - the religion today is liberal secualrism - Rehaam you are one step away... are you prepared to give up your faith totally for this religion (liberal secualrism) of yours..

[Illuminate]

No thats ok lumy hes welcome.....as long as we learn about each other ;)

By the way even I dont know what youre discussing.....:D

I dont think you do either....
all I am asking you do accept the five pillars of islam as traditionally practise... have you gone right away to following another way altogether...

Just answer me - I will leave you alone...

[Prague Spring]

...
the bottom line, you can't have any reverence for the five pillars - you are anti-islam, anti-quran and anti hadith - YOU reject every thing about islamic values - and place liberal secularism to what you stand for... You are a disgrace to islam and muslims.... In the end you will get your come-uppance sooner or later...


Illuminate. What will you do if you and your "ilk" win this argument? Don't you realize that your view are totally abhorrent to the non-Muslim majority in Europe? Don't you realize that winning this argument will change our society from being warily Islamophobic to being blatently anti-Muslim. The calls throught Europe for curbs on mosque building and Muslim immigration and Muslim deportations will amplify exponentially. Is that what you want?

Rehaam. It's true that your views are palatable to the non-Muslim majorities of Europe. However, I recognize more the Islam of Illuminate "and his ilk" in my reading of the Quran then I do yours. And even if your version of Islam is the one I feel I could coexist with, how am I to know that your descendants will not become 'proper' Muslims like Illuminate.

The problem here is your holy books. Islam is in black and white.

I'm genuinely saddened by this, but I don't think that significant numbers of Muslims will EVER be able to coexist satisfactorily in Western society.

[yorkshire observer]

Thanks for tell us, how Rehaam is not a real muslim - we knew that already...

yeah, off course you want to listen to Rehaam, salman rushdie, ed hussien and their ilk... so ppl like you can destory the very last normatitive religion - so their is no islam left...

hey - Rehaam, even your anti-islam supporters see you as not a real muslim - LOL @ Rehaam

as Allah say in the quran: they will not be happy with you, until you follow their religion - the religion today is liberal secualrism - Rehaam you are one step away... are you prepared to give up your faith totally for this religion (liberal secualrism) of yours..
Lumi, bless, the advice to someone in a hole is usually to stop digging but you always keep heading to the earth's core for comic effect.
Liberal secularism gives you the opportunity to practise your religion freely, quite possibly more freely than in other parts of the world where Islam is more prominent.
Must be hard to deal with all that freedom to worship as it seems to be addling your brain.

[Rehaam]

all I am asking you do accept the five pillars of islam as traditionally practise... have you gone right away to following another way altogether...

Just answer me - I will leave you alone...

....you dont bother me....

1) You accussed me first.
2) You bring your evidence first.....

its not difficult to understand is it....whats your first language maybe I need to translate...

[rf-uk]

hey - Rehaam, even your anti-islam supporters see you as not a real muslim - LOL @ Rehaam

But what I can say Illuminate is that it is attitudes/extreme beliefs like yours is the reason why people judge religion and particularly Islam so harshly. I know you are trying to be true to your cause but you need to get this secularist chip off your shoulder. You are doing your own religion a great disservice. Would you hold such opinions if the deceased were someone you were close to?

[Illuminate]

..keep your personal fantasies to yourself...perv...
Sounds like a good muslim man.....modesty and shame....or an Arab king....Im not into little girls...but you might be - is that why you justify hadees where consumating marriage with little girls is ok??

Of topic.....I know :)
:bigpuke:

so you are a little girl then Rehaam... your post come across that way..

Rehaam I would not go near you or fantasize about you - even with a 10ft long disinfected barage poll - wearing heavy duty gloves.. :bigpuke:

I don't have any fantacies about you - you type of person who will make a person miserable in this world and destroy them in the next - no thank you Rehaam....

Try YO - he is ideal for you ;)

[rf-uk]

..keep your personal fantasies to yourself...perv...
Sounds like a good muslim man.....modesty and shame....or an Arab king....Im not into little girls...but you might be - is that why you justify hadees where consumating marriage with little girls is ok??

Of topic.....I know :)

Hahahahah LOL. But very funny. You get rep for that!

[Illuminate]

....you dont bother me....

1) You accussed me first.
2) You bring your evidence first.....

its not difficult to understand is it....whats your first language maybe I need to translate...
so I am right Rehaam - you don't accept the traditional five pillars - you reject, mock everything else.... so no surprise here..

How can you - when you yourself have stated on this thread, you don't accept the sunnah as being a source and authority... in the same sense as the quran..

Thanks for clarifying the matter - at least I know where you stand now... and why you dodge and side step the question I asked..

[yorkshire observer]

so I am right Rehaam - you don't accept the traditional five pillars - you reject, mock everything else.... so no surprise here..

How can you - when you yourself have stated on this thread, you don't accept the sunnah as being a source and authority... in the same sense as the quran..

Thanks for clarifying the matter - at least I know where you stand now... and why you dodge and side step the question I asked..
Is there was a great big pillar in Islam which said by the way, don't forget to kill apostates, why on earth would that make it in any way ok?

[Illuminate]

I am sticking to the topic of the thread...... You should too right?

OK I am glad you do believe in a peaceful civilised society. But your posts don't really highlight this.......

I don't have time to go through all your posts on this site, but from what has been said on this thread you seem to be against condemning a father in Saudi Arabia for killing his daughter for converting to a different religion. In fact you support such action stating that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to do so in the circumstances.

So this is a clear example of an intolerant attitude you have towards other religions and peoples right to choose which god to follow. I do accept that you base this on your understanding of your religion and have been at pains to explain where/why your religion states that this is ok, but THIS IS NOT COMPATABLE WITH A CIVILISED SOCIETY IN 2008.


Illuminate. What will you do if you and your "ilk" win this argument? Don't you realize that your view are totally abhorrent to the non-Muslim majority in Europe? Don't you realize that winning this argument will change our society from being warily Islamophobic to being blatently anti-Muslim. The calls throught Europe for curbs on mosque building and Muslim immigration and Muslim deportations will amplify exponentially. Is that what you want?

Rehaam. It's true that your views are palatable to the non-Muslim majorities of Europe. However, I recognize more the Islam of Illuminate "and his ilk" in my reading of the Quran then I do yours. And even if your version of Islam is the one I feel I could coexist with, how am I to know that your descendants will not become 'proper' Muslims like Illuminate.

The problem here is your holy books. Islam is in black and white.

I'm genuinely saddened by this, but I don't think that significant numbers of Muslims will EVER be able to coexist satisfactorily in Western society.


Lumi, bless, the advice to someone in a hole is usually to stop digging but you always keep heading to the earth's core for comic effect.
Liberal secularism gives you the opportunity to practise your religion freely, quite possibly more freely than in other parts of the world where Islam is more prominent.
Must be hard to deal with all that freedom to worship as it seems to be addling your brain.
ok boys - I am more interested in discussing with Rehaam - as even though she has sold her soul - she is still a muslim sister - not bother with your ilk - the anti-islamic forces..

It is sad, that rehaam seek refuse from anti-islam ppl like you lot..

[yorkshire observer]

What is it you're trying to prove Lumi about apostates?

[Illuminate]

Is there was a great big pillar in Islam which said by the way, don't forget to kill apostates, why on earth would that make it in any way ok?
killing apostate is not a pillar of islam but a fiqh issue - so Mr YO - go and wallow in your anger..

Even Rehaam had no choice but to admit that peaceful apostates are not what the law of apostacy is all about....

[CasualVisitor]

Variation of Godwin's law:

With increasing number of responses to any topic on MPACUK forums, the probability for the thread turning into "islamophobe <-> extremist" bashing approaches 1.

:rolleyes:

Back to topic: anyone got any news about the case?
Will it go to court?
Will the father be set free because his wife accepts blood money?
Will he get a hundred lashes for commiting an illegal honour murder?
Will he get honoured for killing an apostate?

What will happen? What do you know, what do you think?

[yorkshire observer]

killing apostate is not a pillar of islam but a fiqh issue - so Mr YO - go and wallow in your anger..

Even Rehaam had no choice but to admit that peaceful apostates are not what the law of apostacy is all about....
I see, so there are 'peaceful apostates' and another kind.
Please, please go on to explain which kind of apostates are ok by you and which other ones maybe should, you know, lose their lives.
I think you've got every chance of rivalling your mate Lily, the one you accused of listening to the fruitcakes too much the other day, as the comic genius of the forum.

[rf-uk]

ok boys - I am more interested in discussing with Rehaam - as even though she has sold her soul - she is still a muslim sister - not bother with your ilk - the anti-islamic forces...

Never been described as 'force' before, but thanks.... makes me feel kinda jedi-knight'ish.

But seriously, stick to the topic of the thread.

(Those are part of the forum rules aren't they?)

[Illuminate]

What is it you're trying to prove Lumi about apostates?
nothing - I am discussing a side issue with Rehaam, none of your ilk concern....

[yorkshire observer]

nothing - I am discussing a side issue with Rehaam, none of your ilk concern....
Poor Lumi, dug himself in so deep it went all dark around him and he didn't know what he was talking about any more.

[Illuminate]

I see, so there are 'peaceful apostates' and another kind.
if you actually read th equoted verse's from the quran I put up - then you know what I am saying...

[Illuminate]

Never been described as 'force' before, but thanks.... makes me feel kinda jedi-knight'ish.

But seriously, stick to the topic of the thread.

(Those are part of the forum rules aren't they?)
it is part of the topic - it is in relationship what Rehaam stated...and her stance onthe way she see's the quranic text...

Yes I know, YO, PS and the others, will do anything to have a dig at me - along with Rehaam - but who cares....

[Illuminate]

Poor Lumi, dug himself in so deep it went all dark around him and he didn't know what he was talking about any more.
well maybe if you were smart enough you would realise what we were discussing...

[Prague Spring]

ok boys - I am more interested in discussing with Rehaam - as even though she has sold her soul - she is still a muslim sister - not bother with your ilk - the anti-islamic forces..

It is sad, that rehaam seek refuse from anti-islam ppl like you lot..

One day Iluminate, if you win the debate for 'true' Islam, you will have to "bother" with our "ilk".

Because our "ilk" are the overwhelming majority and we will never tolerate the intolerable. Your views disgust us.

One day Illuminate, you will cease to enjoy the freedom and tolerance you enjoy in this society thanks to the version of Islam being represented to us by Rehaam and her 'ilk'.

I just wish I knew whether she represents most British Muslims or whether you do. Time will tell.

[rf-uk]

I just wish I knew whether she represents most British Muslims or whether you do. Time will tell.

I do believe she does represent the majority. Maybe a silent majority, but majority nonetheless. *I hope anyway*

[Rehaam]

ok boys - I am more interested in discussing with Rehaam - as even though she has sold her soul - she is still a muslim sister - not bother with your ilk - the anti-islamic forces..

It is sad, that rehaam seek refuse from anti-islam ppl like you lot..

Oh? Your the liar and the pervert...:bigpuke:

Shame isnt it that these very people you call the anti islamic forces have more decency and etiquettes then you.....and you liken yourself to be a muslim - shame on you....for even pretending to be one...I aint your sister..so dont bother....

[JerseyLily]

Variation of Godwin's law:

With increasing number of responses to any topic on MPACUK forums, the probability for the thread turning into "islamophobe <-> extremist" bashing approaches 1.

:rolleyes:

Back to topic: anyone got any news about the case?
Will it go to court?
Will the father be set free because his wife accepts blood money?
Will he get a hundred lashes for commiting an illegal honour murder?
Will he get honoured for killing an apostate?

What will happen? What do you know, what do you think?

We do not know the circumstances and therefore are unable to make a sound judgment. (and in my case I am so uneducated that I am not able to think according to you).

[Prague Spring]

I do believe she does represent the majority. Maybe a silent majority, but majority nonetheless. *I hope anyway*

So what's the answer? If the Muslim population grows as it is growing then it is reasonable to assume that the number of Illuminates will grow proportionately. How many Illuminates can our society cope with before things turn nasty?

And the Rehaams of this world. How can we guarantee that their descendants won't become like Illuminate?

I fear for the future. And the saddest part is that when the proverbial hits the pan, the Rehaams of this world will suffer too. It's not fair. It's so sad. And it's so scary.

[Rehaam]

One day Iluminate, if you win the debate for 'true' Islam, you will have to "bother" with our "ilk".

Because our "ilk" are the overwhelming majority and we will never tolerate the intolerable. Your views disgust us.

One day Illuminate, you will cease to enjoy the freedom and tolerance you enjoy in this society thanks to the version of Islam being represented to us by Rehaam and her 'ilk'.

I just wish I knew whether she represents most British Muslims or whether you do. Time will tell.

Muslims like me dislike Lumys ilk as much as non muslims...

We are in the vast majority which is growing - you just wont see us as much because we blend in with society....Most of us are too busy trying to make a living and practicing the essence of Islam....

I think the media is responsible for focussing on Loonis ilk....however in that very same media you have many muslim faces....that are balanced and integrated....

[Illuminate]

Oh? Your the liar and the pervert...:bigpuke:

Shame isnt it that these very people you call the anti islamic forces have more decency and etiquettes then you.....and you liken yourself to be a muslim - shame on you....for even pretending to be one...I aint your sister..so dont bother....
don't be like that - I regard you as my good sister :) and you will be always be my sister - even a bad sister I have time for :)

I don't have much respect for the 3/4 non-muslim on this thread - look at your arguement and see why they agree with it and cheering you on.... because of your anti-islam stance...

Why don't you just clarify what I am asking - it would put the whole episode to an end...

Honestly, I rather be wrong than right - and have my pride and diginity broken.. by you....

[Prague Spring]

Muslims like me dislike Lumys ilk as much as non muslims...

We are in the majority - you just wont see us as much because we blend in with society....Most of us are too bust trying to make a living and practicing the essence of Islam....

I think the media is responsible for focussing on Loonis ilk....however in that very same media you have many muslim faces....that are balanced and integrated....

I'm trying very hard to be optimistic for the future. But it's becoming increasingly difficult for the reasons I put in my previous post:


So what's the answer? If the Muslim population grows as it is growing then it is reasonable to assume that the number of Illuminates will grow proportionately. How many Illuminates can our society cope with before things turn nasty?

And the Rehaams of this world. How can we guarantee that their descendants won't become like Illuminate?

I fear for the future. And the saddest part is that when the proverbial hits the pan, the Rehaams of this world will suffer too. It's not fair. It's so sad. And it's so scary.

Is there any way you can reassure me?

[JerseyLily]

don't be like that - I regard you as my good sister :) and you will be always be my sister - even a bad sister I have time for :)

I don't have much respect for the 3/4 non-muslim on this thread - look at your arguement and see why they agree with it and cheering you on.... because of your anti-islam stance...

Why don't you just clarify what I am asking - it would put the whole episode to an end...

Honestly, I rather be wrong than right - and have my pride and diginity broken.. by you....

I would like to know how much Rehaam accepts of hadith and I have asked this question twice before but it has gone unanswered.

[Illuminate]

Muslims like me dislike Lumys ilk as much as non muslims...

We are in the vast majority which is growing - you just wont see us as much because we blend in with society....Most of us are too busy trying to make a living and practicing the essence of Islam....

I think the media is responsible for focussing on Loonis ilk....however in that very same media you have many muslim faces....that are balanced and integrated....
Rehaam you in the majority - lol -
get real, ppl like you who reject islam - are a tiny minority of muslim of this world... The only ppl who dislike me - are you ilk - the anti-hadith and anti-islam ppl... who have sold their souls to the devil

What islam do you practise - you don't practise the five pillars - you reject the islamic laws - islamic values - what do you practise...

You mock muslim and belittle islam and the quran itself - you need to get real.... You call all muslim hypocrite in one thread - and how majority off them are wrong - and now you claim the majority are like you - lol

I have just as many non-muslims freinds as I do muslim friend - so non-muslim hate me do they Rehaam.... What kind of non-muslim hate me are the ones on this thread - those anti-islam brigade - the ones who hate, when I march and speak out against british/western policies - the ones who want to destroy the esense of islam, the ones who hate it when I defend islam and muslims - Rehaam you are in good company... the anti-islamic brigade..

oh dear Rehaam.... you don't even know who your friends are do you....

[rf-uk]

I don't have much respect for the 3/4 non-muslim on this thread - look at your arguement and see why they agree with it and cheering you on.... because of your anti-islam stance...

We don't support you because you do not believe in a civilised society. You sound like BNP and Abu Hamzas love child.

READ THIS AGAIN:

I don't have time to go through all your posts on this site, but from what has been said on this thread you seem to be against condemning a father in Saudi Arabia for killing his daughter for converting to a different religion. In fact you support such action stating that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to do so in the circumstances.

So this is a clear example of an intolerant attitude you have towards other religions and peoples right to choose which god to follow. I do accept that you base this on your understanding of your religion and have been at pains to explain where/why your religion states that this is ok, but THIS IS NOT COMPATABLE WITH A CIVILISED SOCIETY IN 2008.

[Rehaam]

I'm trying very hard to be optimistic for the future. But it's becoming increasingly difficult for the reasons I put in my previous post:

Is there any way you can reassure me?

Prague....Western society bombed Afghanistan did muslims do anything - not as an offensive but as a defensife?....Iraq - anything?...Paleistein anything? Kashmir anything?

All talk - dont worry...they can only kill the odd woman here and there...and not in the UK....(no one agrees with honour based killings....I think)


I would like to know how much Rehaam accepts of hadith and I have asked this question twice before but it has gone unanswered.

Why you asking him - hes not going to answer you...looking to him for support....ahhhh so sweet....

Well you did ask me didnt you? And I asked you to justify the reason you asked? So what happened?

where are your quote of the hadees I reject.....

You like being embarrased too?

[Illuminate]

I would like to know how much Rehaam accepts of hadith and I have asked this question twice before but it has gone unanswered.
Rehaam has always been coy about answering ppl question - she has always dodged and side stepped them..

she always does that - don't hold your breathe for a reply...

her silence itself is a answer...

[Re-born Jihadi]

I do believe she does represent the majority. Maybe a silent majority, but majority nonetheless. *I hope anyway*


Total contradiction or what!!!!:rolleyes:

[rf-uk]

So what's the answer? If the Muslim population grows as it is growing then it is reasonable to assume that the number of Illuminates will grow proportionately. How many Illuminates can our society cope with before things turn nasty?

And the Rehaams of this world. How can we guarantee that their descendants won't become like Illuminate?

I fear for the future. And the saddest part is that when the proverbial hits the pan, the Rehaams of this world will suffer too. It's not fair. It's so sad. And it's so scary.

Yup, agreed.

[Illuminate]

Prague....Western society bombed Afghanistan did muslims do anything - not as an offensive but as a defensife?....Iraq - anything?...Paleistein anything? Kashmir anything?

All talk - dont worry...they can only kill the odd woman here and there...and not in the UK....(no one agrees with honour based killings....I think)
because ppl like you hinder muslim from doing anything - ppl like you join forces with these anti-islam brigade to harm destroy muslims and islam itself...

ppl like you sell islam away to these anti-islamic forces who use your ilk to attack islam and muslims..




Why you asking him - hes not going to answer you...looking to him for support....ahhhh so sweet....

Well you did ask me didnt you? And I asked you to justify the reason you asked? So what happened?

where are your quote of the hadees I reject.....

You like being embarrased too?

she asked you a question - but you didn't reply in your typical fashion - instead you resort to insults and mocking..

Why don't you answer her question - it is no use, deluding yourself - that you will and have embarrassed anyone - all you have done is proven what you are- an insincere person - who has no morals and shame...

[Re-born Jihadi]

Is there was a great big pillar in Islam which said by the way, don't forget to kill apostates, why on earth would that make it in any way ok?


YO - you obviously know :rolleyes: judging by the length of time you have been on this forum, and hopefully learnt many-a-thing, that there isnt such a great big pillar in Islam that advocates or suggests as such, so why insinuate. :confused:

Unless you are trying to provoke. :eek:

[CasualVisitor]

because ppl like you hinder muslim from doing anything - ppl like you join forces with these anti-islam brigade to harm destroy muslims and islam itself...

ppl like you sell islam away to these anti-islamic forces who use your ilk to attack islam and muslims..
The ones harming islam and behaving truly anti-islamic in this thread are JL & you.

[Illuminate]

I do believe she does represent the majority. Maybe a silent majority, but majority nonetheless. *I hope anyway*
how many reject verse's of the quran..
how many muslim, reject the very status of islam itself - where they no longer regard islam as a way of life
how many muslim reject belittle the spirit and letter of islam..

majority of muslim, refer matters - daily, weekly and monthly, yearly - to shariah...matters such as personal and financial - ppl like Rehaam don't...

she represents a majority you are having a laugh - you just as deluded as she is...

Like I have said, she is like Yasmin Brown, Rushdie and their ilk - which muslim like these ppl.... except ppl like them... they are just a bunch of two faced hypocrites - who concren lies for themselves and no one else..

[Illuminate]

The ones harming islam and behaving truly anti-islamic in this thread are JL & you.
lol - you are just upset, that JL converted to islam and now giving her a hard time - another good friend of Rehaam's - LOOOOL

[CasualVisitor]

lol - you are just upset, that JL converted to islam
No, I'm actually quite happy she doesn't belong to my camp anymore. She's a shame to any camp. so better yours than mine.

[JerseyLily]

The ones harming islam and behaving truly anti-islamic in this thread are JL & you.

So you like the deviated muslims who will one day become like the jews with their "liberal" judaism "reform" judaism. Or Christians who don't believe in their scripture as relevant to them in this day and age. Who needed the laws of men to make them civilised.

Yes there are some muslims who are like that however, they are Alhamdulilah in the minority.

You want us to become secularised muslims reformed muslims western muslims modern muslims but Islam is a religion for all time and for all people

[CasualVisitor]

You want us to become secularised muslims reformed muslims western muslims modern muslims but Islam is a religion for all time and for all people
So Islam is an antique outdated religion, that what you saying?

[rf-uk]

Total contradiction or what!!!!:rolleyes:

EH???????

If someone you knew was ill, and you said:

'I hope they will get better. I believe they will get better.'

Would you be contradicting yourself?

[Rehaam]

So you like the deviated muslims who will one day become like the jews with their "liberal" judaism "reform" judaism. Or Christians who don't believe in their scripture as relevant to them in this day and age. Who needed the laws of men to make them civilised.

Yes there are some muslims who are like that however, they are Alhamdulilah in the minority.

You want us to become secularised muslims reformed muslims western muslims modern muslims but Islam is a religion for all time and for all people

Just being muslims will do rather then being pretend ones that jeapordise the understanding of the true spirit of Islam....

Wheres your quotes?

[Re-born Jihadi]

The ones harming islam and behaving truly anti-islamic in this thread are JL & you.


And you would know...yea..cos you know all about Islamic values..:rolleyes:

Next thing - you wil be telling us how to fast and pray etc..:slaaap:

[Illuminate]

No, I'm actually quite happy she doesn't belong to my camp anymore. She's a shame to any camp. so better yours than mine.
she is asset to islam.... :thumbup:

I may agree with her on things and disagree with on others - but she has been the only one for an very long time - to take on the anti-islamic forces who frequent this site - spouting their hatred.... she is a credit....

I see why you no longer would want her in your camp - she has found the truth and she is not turning back AND she will cause others to find the truth :)

[Re-born Jihadi]

No, I'm actually quite happy she doesn't belong to my camp anymore. She's a shame to any camp. so better yours than mine.



I see what you are trying to say...:D

[JerseyLily]

So Islam is an antique outdated religion, that what you saying?

No that is the opposite from what I am saying. We have alhamdulilah our law and our way of life written in the Quran and Sunnah for all people and for all of time so we don't need secularisation or anything with an ism.

I can see how hard it is for a christian to see things clearly I was in that same situation myself for years but alhamdulilah. Trouble with christianity is that is teaches you to accept impossible things like Mary being the mother of God or the Trinity its all mumbo jumbo and as long as the masses stay bamboozled and don't start asking too many tricky questions everyone is happy.

Probably you gave up expecting answers from your own so you came asking us for some.

[Re-born Jihadi]

but Islam is a religion for all time and for all people


Well said JL.....:thumbup:

[Illuminate]

Just being muslims will do rather then being pretend ones that jeapordise the understanding of the true spirit of Islam....

Wheres your quotes?
I suggest you stop pretending to be one then - it is you who said you are a sunni muslim - you are certainly not... you are a god alone person... you are a evangelised-atheist muslim - loooool

stop playing games - answer her question...

[Re-born Jihadi]

EH???????

If someone you knew was ill, and you said:

'I hope they will get better. I believe they will get better.'

Would you be contradicting yourself?


Yes Eh!!!

Look at your post again. Thats not what you were saying (i believe.:D )

[CasualVisitor]

Trouble with christianity is that is teaches you to accept impossible things like Mary being the mother of God or the Trinity its all mumbo jumbo
..or like someone splitting the Moon?
:rolleyes:


as long as the masses stay bamboozled and don't start asking too many tricky questions everyone is happy.
Now that would be the Muslims, dear!
:D

Probably you gave up expecting answers from your own so you came asking us for some.
Asking? Who's asking? I ain't! I know.

[rf-uk]

Yes Eh!!!

Look at your post again. Thats not what you were saying (i believe.:D )

Dude, you are fast making yourself look like you don't fully understand English properly. I don't mean that in a derogative way, English may not be your first language. If it isn't then you shouldn't lecture about things you don't know about. And if English is your first language then you should ask for refund from your school :)

[Illuminate]

Wheres your quotes?
read your posts - those are your quotes..

you failed to respond to me and now JL...

How can you even accept the traditional five pillars of islam - when you yourself stated that sunnah has no authority and is a source on this thread.. - here is your link - and this what I said to your post..
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

I will quote that posts of yours and my reply all the time... from now on..


and get real Rehaam... stop deluding yourself...

[Re-born Jihadi]

Dude, you are fast making yourself look like you don't fully understand English properly. I don't mean that in a derogative way, English may not be your first language. If it isn't then you shouldn't lecture about things you don't know about. And if English is your first language then you should ask for refund from your school :)


I think its you who needs to stop being contradictory and say one (as in 1) think and stick to it.

Obviously youre not in a position to ask for a refund as you probably didnt go to school. :eek:

[Abdul Hafiz]

Well what we do agree about is that

...As youve discovered the Quran doesnt punish peaceful apostacy.....

:)

This is not true. I did not agree to this nor "discovered" it. Quran does punish "peaceful" apostasy. Please do not put words in my mouth.

[rf-uk]

I think its you who needs to stop being contradictory and say one (as in 1) think and stick to it.

Obviously youre not in a position to ask for a refund as you probably didnt go to school. :eek:

Explain how belief and hope are totally contradictory ?

Now everyone can watch you try to weasle your way out of answering......

[Rehaam]

This is not true. I did not agree to this nor "discovered" it. Quran does punish "peaceful" apostasy. Please do not put words in my mouth.


Back to square one ? That didnt take long...so you think that Quran does punish peaceful apostates?

Lets clarify what you think the Quran says...

[Illuminate]

This is not true. I did not agree to this nor "discovered" it. Quran does punish "peaceful" apostasy. Please do not put words in my mouth.
watch Rehaam will start to turn towards her God alone tactics - looool

problem with Rehaam she doesn't have clue about the quran and islam - she just speculates and conjecture about it....matching it to her desire and nafs....

she has no form of sophisitication when it comes to understanding the quranic text...

[Re-born Jihadi]

Explain how belief and hope are totally contradictory ?

Now everyone can watch you try to weasle your way out of answering......


You specifically said "I do believe". The onus being on "do".

Then you said "I hope". If you had said "I do hope" then it would have been ok.

No weaseling of any sort I am afraid.

Your post was contradictory and you know it. :wave:

[JerseyLily]

..or like someone splitting the Moon?
:rolleyes:


Now that would be the Muslims, dear!
:D

Asking? Who's asking? I ain't! I know.

Do you find the splitting of the moon harder to accept than Jesus a.s. bringing dead people back to life? Making blind people see?

You don't believe in miracles like you don't believe in your scripture?

[Illuminate]

Back to square one ? That didnt take long...so you think that Quran does punish peaceful apostates?

Lets clarify what you think the Quran says...
problem is that you don't understand the quran and what the aims and objectives are and how the text relates to realities..

You don't have a clue about the religious text - you just based things on conjecture, speculation and guess work... as you reject the meaning of the Quran..

btw - we talking about THE quran not a quran of yours which is written in english - lol @ rehaam

[Rehaam]

problem is that you don't understand the quran and what the aims and objectives are and how the text relates to realities..

You don't have a clue about the religious text - you just based things on conjecture, speculation and guess work... as you reject the meaning of the Quran..

btw - we talking about THE quran not a quran of yours which is written in english - lol @ rehaam

And a pervert and a liar who does not have the basic mannerisms of debate is going to teach me the Quran??

Get over yourself - you know nothing of Islam your behaviour clearly identifies that ..so go pull the wool over someone elses eyes theres plenty of idiots there that are willling to be fooled.....but dont think you have any kind of integrity left to try to tell me what the problem is....I think you have a few of your own....

[rf-uk]

You specifically said "I do believe". The onus being on "do".

Then you said "I hope". If you had said "I do hope" then it would have been ok.

No weaseling of any sort I am afraid.

Your post was contradictory and you know it. :wave:

Nope.
My 'belief' is entirely complimentary to what I 'hope'.
You said they are TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY.
They are not.
Go back to school.

PS - Dont call me 'son' in your repping. If my dad was as thick as you I would insist on seeing the birth certificate :)

[CasualVisitor]

Do you find the splitting of the moon harder to accept than Jesus a.s. bringing dead people back to life? Making blind people see?

You don't believe in miracles like you don't believe in your scripture?

...it teaches you to accept impossible things like...
I was responding to YOUR claim that miracles were impossible, dear.

Trying to have intelligent discussion with you is like trying to teach a cow how to fly!

Going in circles, are we! Hmmmmmm.

[drepf]

Do you find the splitting of the moon harder to accept than Jesus a.s. bringing dead people back to life? Making blind people see?

You don't believe in miracles like you don't believe in your scripture?

People wake from comas all the time- which in biblical times could easily have become "risen from the dead" in the re-telling
Temporary blindness is just that, temporary.
So it is possible to see how some of the Christian "miracles" arose.
Unfortunately for you, the idea of your "god" splitting the moon is just silly. And you know it.
What did he fix it with :rolleyes: ?

[CasualVisitor]

Unfortunately for you, the idea of your "god" splitting the moon is just silly. And you know it.
What did he fix it with :rolleyes: ?
Cheese? :p

[Re-born Jihadi]

Nope.
My 'belief' is entirely complimentary to what I 'hope'.
You said they are TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY.
They are not.
Go back to school.

PS - Dont call me 'son' in your repping. If my dad was as thick as you I would have serious personal issues :)


re-read your post. Its contradictory from what you say in the first 3 words to how you finish with the last quote.

I think you need to GO TO school.

ps - as for your rep, its been reported.

As for your dad, hey, if youre not happy, sorry you cant return them I afraid.

Better luck next time. :p

[JerseyLily]

:)


Im not a perv and not a liar unlike you have proven yourself to be...... so what you think isnt really important ..... youre not important Loony - neither are your opinions and Im sorry to say this but you have left yourself with little respect in the eyes of muslims and non muslims...... you really do come across as a little twisted in the head - not just your beliefs but also your manner of discussion....

You know nothing of the religion you claim....youre a fake....a hollow vessel....

I really do feel sorry for you....so many issues...so little self esteem...

Why cant you just answer the question about which hadith you believe in ? Do you believe in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim ? Which Hadith please answer the question.

[JerseyLily]

Cheese? :p

Looks like you are completely unable to answer the question C.V.#

Do you believe in Miracles?

[CasualVisitor]

Looks like you are completely unable to answer the question C.V.#

Do you believe in Miracles?
Sure do. Like Jesus walking on water, multiplying food, raising Lazarus from the dead...
Yeah, 100%.

What about you?

[Rehaam]

read your posts - those are your quotes..

you failed to respond to me and now JL...

How can you even accept the traditional five pillars of islam - when you yourself stated that sunnah has no authority and is a source on this thread.. - here is your link - and this what I said to your post..
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showpost.php?p=537231&postcount=217

I will quote that posts of yours and my reply all the time... from now on..


and get real Rehaam... stop deluding yourself...

that post doesnt say I reject sunnah on hajj / namaz or fasts...

is that the best you could do....lie and then post something irrelevant ..bravo....he finally posts soemthing irrelevant.....clever little girl...

[JerseyLily]

Sure do. Like Jesus walking on water, multiplying food, raising Lazarus from the dead...
Yeah, 100%.

What about you?

I wonder if you are being sarcastic, actually I am sure you are but it's still a shock for me to learn that a self professed catholic doesn't believe in the bible or miracles.

[Rehaam]

Why cant you just answer the question about which hadith you believe in ? Do you believe in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim ? Which Hadith please answer the question.

Gosh some people on this site are well slow....read previous posts...

[Illuminate]

:)


Im not a perv and not a liar unlike you have proven yourself to be...... so what you think isnt really important ..... youre not important Loony - neither are your opinions and Im sorry to say this but you have left yourself with little respect in the eyes of muslims and non muslims...... you really do come across as a little twisted in the head - not just your beliefs but also your manner of discussion....

You know nothing of the religion you claim....youre a fake....a hollow vessel....

I really do feel sorry for you....so many issues...so little self esteem...
Rehaam try and understand for once...

I want you to prove to everyone I was wrong - I want you show to everyone that I missed understood you and made false claims and accusation... I want you to do that.. Front of everyone.. as I will be happy to be proven wrong..

It is no use making the same accusation without proving it - all you need to do is clarify yourself.

I will be more than happy to say I was wrong - Rehaam accepts the traditional five pillars and practise them in an orthodox manner...

But you know and I know - so do other ppl who are with it - you can't - hence you resorting to this underhand tactic of accusing me of lying... I will be more than happy to say - I was totally wrong if you state what you hold and be sincere about it...

Do you not understand this - I will be happy for you, if I am proven wrong - but you haven't shown anything for me to think otherwise...



Rehaam I never claim to be a important person, nor do I myself hold my opinions of religion highly, as my knowledge of islam is like a drop in the ocean - it is you who takes on the role of being important.... without god alone and atheistic outlook..

As for muslim not respecting me - well it is you and SQ - the anti-islam jokers - who don't respect me - but who cares about your ilk - you two are a right pathetic - you aims are to destroy islam itself - with your god alone ideology...

As for non-muslim the only ones who hate me are again the ones - who are anti-islam - who don't want islam to succeed and spread - the ones which you have taken allied to on this thread... so who wants respect from these kind of ppl - There are many non-muslims I know who I have worked alongside fighting for justice - these are the kind of ppl I want to respect me.... Not the ones who resepct you - YO, PS and their ilk... it says alot about you than me...



I really do feel sorry for you....so many issues...so little self esteem...
this is just a reflection of yourself - yeah I do feel sorry for - with all your issues and anti-islam stance - maybe one day you will have a reality check and come out of this delusion and decide to become a real muslim - rather than this god only delusion...

[Illuminate]

that post doesnt say I reject sunnah on hajj / namaz or fasts...

is that the best you could do....lie and then post something irrelevant ..bravo....he finally posts soemthing irrelevant.....clever little girl...
at last a reply - 100 post later...

lol - but your posted that you don't see sunnah/hadith as the same authority as the Quran - how can you practise the five pillars of islam...

yet again you say - hajj/namaz and fasts - what about zakat and shahadah....

why do you not mention zakat and shahadah - do you pay the 2.5% zakat each year....

[yorkshire observer]

at last a reply - 100 post later...

lol - but your posted that you don't see sunnah/hadith as the same authority as the Quran - how can you practise the five pillars of islam...

yet again you say - hajj/namaz and fasts - what about zakat and shahadah....

why do you not mention zakat and shahadah - do you pay the 2.5% zakat each year....
This thread is hilarious. Lumi, what is it you're hoping to prove about apostacy?
Are you really hoping to prove that because a text somewhere says it's ok to persecute someone for their beliefs that it's ok?
And if a fellow Muslim disagrees with you that somehow they're less of a Muslim?
What an incredibly embarrassing position for you to be in.

[Rehaam]

Rehaam try and understand for once...

But you know and I know - so do other ppl who are with it - you can't - hence you resorting to this underhand tactic of accusing me of lying...

Oh no ..you are lying....and you know it....you said i dont believe in sunnah re fasting/namaz/hajj - prove it if you cant prove it your lying...end of ....but no you and your side kick want me to justify myself .... I dont owe you any justifications....then in conversation you said you was going to send your side kick to check me out for 101 wife..you are a pervert...your tacky....a joke...if you had any shame youd be embarrased of yourself but you dont.....



As for muslim not respecting me - well it is you and SQ - the anti-islam jokers - who don't respect me - but who cares about your ilk - you two are a right pathetic - you aims are to destroy islam itself - with your god alone ideology...

As for non-muslim the only ones who hate me are again the ones - who are anti-islam - who don't want islam to succeed and spread - the ones which you have taken allied to on this thread...

Youd be surprised... ;)

End of this conversation with you - youre really not worthy of my time or replies....unfortunately where theres good theres bad...

[Illuminate]

Gosh some people on this site are well slow....read previous posts...
it is you who is slow...... just answer the question - it is not a difficult question... why do you have to play games - when some ask you a straight forward questions.. why don't you just reply.. like a normal human being does - is this one of the things God alone ppl are thought - avoid answering any question...play games, side step and so on..

Just say, what you hold - that you don't accept hadith - only those which agree with your view and opinion - which contradict your twisted and manipualted interpretation of the quran... so you don't need to follow what the quran actually states and what islam says... just say that... :thumbup:

[Re-born Jihadi]

This thread is hilarious. Lumi, what is it you're hoping to prove about apostacy?
Are you really hoping to prove that because a text somewhere says it's ok to persecute someone for their beliefs that it's ok?
And if a fellow Muslim disagrees with you that somehow they're less of a Muslim?
What an incredibly embarrassing position for you to be in.


Why do you do this to yourself YO :rolleyes:

Do you not realise that there are religious texts that are very important to those who practice their religion. Such as muslims.

If you cannot understand that, then you really shouldnt post.

Begs the question what you have learnt about Islam and Muslims that you can put yourself in a position to comment. :confused:

[yorkshire observer]

Why do you do this to yourself YO :rolleyes:

Do you not realise that there are religious texts that are very important to those who practice their religion. Such as muslims.

If you cannot understand that, then you really shouldnt post.

Begs the question what you have learnt about Islam and Muslims that you can put yourself in a position to comment. :confused:
But RBJ, it is so very funny to see someone, in a thread about the murder of a woman for being Christian, so desperate to find something in a religious text that could somehow make it more ok.
Wonderfully comical.

[Rehaam]

Why do you do this to yourself YO :rolleyes:

Do you not realise that there are religious texts that are very important to those who practice their religion. Such as muslims.

If you cannot understand that, then you really shouldnt post.

Begs the question what you have learnt about Islam and Muslims that you can put yourself in a position to comment. :confused:

And would the Quran happen to be one of them??

Begs the question of what you have learnt about Islam that you can put yourself in a position to comment about your religious textswhen there is nothing in the Quran to say that you can kill a peaceful apostate......

[Illuminate]

Oh no ..you are lying....and you know it....you said i dont believe in sunnah re fasting/namaz/hajj - prove it....but no you and your side kick want me to justify myself .... I dont owe you any justifications....then in conversation you said you was going to send your side kick to check me out for 101 wife..you are a pervert...your tacky....a joke...if you had any shame youd be embarrased of yourself but you dont.....
Rehaam - reading your post you do make me laugh... sometimes I wonder if you writing these post with a strait jacket on...

you lying Rehaam - I said the five pillars NOT just fasting/namaaz/hajj - they also include zakat and shahdah - so I take it you reject them...

Yet again you miss out zakat and shahadah.... isnt this prove enough about the five pillars - unless you clarify...

How can you accept the five pillars and practise them - when you clear stated you don't follow the sunnah with the same authority as the quran - how can you ever... you made a general statement, you didn't restricted it...


oooooh - Rehaam you are upset, as I said I send JL to check you out for being my 101st wife - you wanted to be higher up in the list - looool..... yep - it was a bad joke.... wouldn't go near you with a 1o0ft long disinfected barage poll with heavy duty gloves... :bigpuke: like I said previously YO is ideal for you - it would mean at last, I will have YO stop his sexual innuendo's towards me and you stop giving me your :) - looool - everybody be happy...



Youd be surprised... ;)
definitely not - as along as sincere muslim and non-muslim see me in a good light I am happy - it are he so called muslims - the extremist - hadiht rejecters (god alone), radicals and fundaments and the anti-islam non-muslim who hate and dislike ppl like me..... but these anti-islam brigade definitely like you ;)

[yorkshire observer]

Come on Lumi, let's be specific now. In what circumstances is it ok to kill or persecute human beings who decide they don't believe in Islam?
You have a list there to go with your spade?

[Re-born Jihadi]

But RBJ, it is so very funny to see someone, in a thread about the murder of a woman for being Christian, so desperate to find something in a religious text that could somehow make it more ok.
Wonderfully comical.


Its comical to hear you going on about "texts" and what Islam allows or doesnt.

You cant make this stuff up.......:rolleyes: .. hilarious.

[Illuminate]

And would the Quran happen to be one of them??

Begs the question of what you have learnt about Islam that you can put yourself in a position to comment about your religious textswhen there is nothing in the Quran to say that you can kill a peaceful apostate......
Rehaam is on a role - she is picking a fight with all muslims.... those anti-islam brigade must love you - lol @ Rehaam

looool - Rehaam because we take religious text as a whole - you take part of revelation - you only take the recited revelation and do what ever you want with it... but real muslim take also the non-recited revelation as this has the same authority as recited revelations... and sheds further light on it...


Just to clarify for those who lack few brain cells - now this does not mean - I hold all apostates should be killed - infact I agree with my sweetie pie :LOL: but sometimes obnoxious sister that only those who create mischief should be sentence accordingly. - with due process...

[Re-born Jihadi]

And would the Quran happen to be one of them??

Begs the question of what you have learnt about Islam that you can put yourself in a position to comment about your religious textswhen there is nothing in the Quran to say that you can kill a peaceful apostate......


I think its you who needs to ask themselves what they have learnt about Islam and whether you know everything there is to know. I doubt if the answer is a Yes.

[yorkshire observer]

Rehaam is on a role - she is picking a fight with all muslims.... those anti-islam brigade must love you - lol @ Rehaam

looool - Rehaam because we take religious text as a whole - you take part of revelation - you only take the recited revelation and do what ever you want with it... but real muslim take also the non-recited revelation as this has the same authority as recited revelations... and sheds further light on it...


Just to clarify for those who lack few brain cells - now this does not mean - I hold all apostates should be killed - infact I agree with my sweetie pie :LOL: but sometimes obnoxious sister that only those who create mischief should be sentence accordingly. - with due process...
Come on oh cowardly one. Seeing as you sought to blur the rights and wrongs of a woman being killed for her religion, now have some guts and tell us when you think it's ok to kill or persecute apostates.

[Illuminate]

And would the Quran happen to be one of them??

Begs the question of what you have learnt about Islam that you can put yourself in a position to comment about your religious textswhen there is nothing in the Quran to say that you can kill a peaceful apostate......


Come on Lumi, let's be specific now. In what circumstances is it ok to kill or persecute human beings who decide they don't believe in Islam?
You have a list there to go with your spade?
hello there my little sweetie pie's :rolleyes: you two get along well... it will be a shame for me to spoil the fun....

YO - I will let your ideal muslim and friend answer that question...about who are not the peaceful apostates..

[yorkshire observer]

Its comical to hear you going on about "texts" and what Islam allows or doesnt.

You cant make this stuff up.......:rolleyes: .. hilarious.
Same question to you RBJ. Give us the low down on the top ten circumstances in which an apostate gets persecuted/terminated.

[Re-born Jihadi]

Same question to you RBJ. Give us the low down on the top ten circumstances in which an apostate gets persecuted/terminated.


I think you dont hear well.

You are the last person who can be counted on as an authority on islamic matters. So please go and give your viewpoint mad enough to believe and listen to what you have to say. :rolleyes:

[Illuminate]

Come on oh cowardly one. Seeing as you sought to blur the rights and wrongs of a woman being killed for her religion, now have some guts and tell us when you think it's ok to kill or persecute apostates.
I will answer you once my good sis.....I mean brother Rehaam has replied to you.... ;)

[yorkshire observer]

hello there my little sweetie pie's :rolleyes: you two get along well... it will be a shame for me to spoil the fun....

YO - I will let your ideal muslim and friend answer that question...about who are not the peaceful apostates..
Ahh, poor Lumi hasn't the guts to say when an apostate should be punished.
Or maybe you just don't really know but hope that no-one notices.
Would a mischief-making apostate be one who committed the crime of wearing a crucifix after leaving Islam?
Or would it be if they had the outrageous temerity to talk about their conversion to friends?
Or if they became an atheist and set up a blog decrying Islam, would that be enough to send the boys round?

[yorkshire observer]

I think you dont hear well.

You are the last person who can be counted on as an authority on islamic matters. So please go and give your viewpoint mad enough to believe and listen to what you have to say. :rolleyes:
So, so gutless. You're so obviously privately embarrassed that your version of your religion would persecute others for their beliefs that although you can jump up and down and try to fudge the issue when a Christian woman is murdered when it really comes down to it neither of you have got the guts to say what you really think.

[Illuminate]

Ahh, poor Lumi hasn't the guts to say when an apostate should be punished.
Or maybe you just don't really know but hope that no-one notices.
Would a mischief-making apostate be one who committed the crime of wearing a crucifix after leaving Islam?
Or would it be if they had the outrageous temerity to talk about their conversion to friends?
Or if they became an atheist and set up a blog decrying Islam, would that be enough to send the boys round?
I will answer you once Rehaam and if she replies to you...

why don't you ask Rehaam....

[drepf]

I think you dont hear well.

You are the last person who can be counted on as an authority on islamic matters. So please go and give your viewpoint mad enough to believe and listen to what you have to say. :rolleyes:

And who's going to ask you about islam, :dunce: boy?
It would be like asking George W. Bush about philosophy.:rolleyes:

[yorkshire observer]

I will answer you once Rehaam and if she replies to you...

why don't you ask Rehaam....
What a complete and utter coward you are.
Secretly ashamed you think human beings should be persecuted for their religious beliefs? Surely not.
Now show some guts and tell us.

[Re-born Jihadi]

So, so gutless. You're so obviously privately embarrassed that your version of your religion would persecute others for their beliefs that although you can jump up and down and try to fudge the issue when a Christian woman is murdered when it really comes down to it neither of you have got the guts to say what you really think.


Considering that christians/jews lived side by side, and continue to do so, in Islamic countries , I think your point is a stupid one and you know it.

Thats what I like about you YO. You really have no idea about Islam and Muslims but pretend to be an authority on it.

Clueless...:rolleyes: ....

[yorkshire observer]

Considering that christians/jews lived side by side, and continue to do so, in Islamic countries , I think your point is a stupid one and you know it.

Thats what I like about you YO. You really have no idea about Islam and Muslims but pretend to be an authority on it.

Clueless...:rolleyes: ....
Gutless RBJ, absolutely gutless.
In reality you are ashamed of your belief that people should be persecuted for their religious beliefs.
What a coward.

[Re-born Jihadi]

And who's going to ask you about islam, :dunce: boy?
It would be like asking George W. Bush about philosophy.:rolleyes:


Certainly not going to take any pointers from supporters of the neo-con scum.

I at least know what my religion is about. Shame that :dunce:s like you dont. but then again, supporting the blood-letting of innocent is a belief of truly sicko's.

And then you have the nerve to comment on issues that are Islamic. As if you are some authority on it.

No doubt you and Dubya are of the same ilk. Both are :dunce:s :D

[CasualVisitor]

I wonder if you are being sarcastic, actually I am sure you are but it's still a shock for me to learn that a self professed catholic doesn't believe in the bible or miracles.
In contrast to a self-professed Muslim like you, I actually strengthened my faith through research, Lily.
And equally in constrast to you, I was not being sarcastic.
And equally in big contrast to you, I am not in the least shocked about further intellectually sub-optimised babble of you.

[Re-born Jihadi]

Gutless RBJ, absolutely gutless.
In reality you are ashamed of your belief that people should be persecuted for their religious beliefs.
What a coward.



No, its you who is clueless. This must go hand-in-hand with your phoney "human rights" agenda.

Like I said, you dont know a thing about Islam and for you to pretend you do shows what "knowledge" :rolleyes: you have.

[mareyah]

Considering that christians/jews lived side by side, and continue to do so, in Islamic countries , I think your point is a stupid one and you know it.

Thats what I like about you YO. You really have no idea about Islam and Muslims but pretend to be an authority on it.

Clueless...:rolleyes: ....

i think the problem bro RBJ ultimtely rests with the confusion of culture and religion. some cannot seem to be able to differentiate between the two. Unfortunately those who are the culprits in running these cloud of confusion are guilty as people like YO...pity how some cannot 'learn'

[drepf]

Certainly not going to take any pointers from supporters of the neo-con scum.

I at least know what my religion is about. Shame that :dunce:s like you dont. but then again, supporting the blood-letting of innocent is a belief of truly sicko's.

And then you have the nerve to comment on issues that are Islamic. As if you are some authority on it.

No doubt you and Dubya are of the same ilk. Both are :dunce:s :D

Interesting that you say "my religion" not "our religion", and for once I think you've used English correctly. Decent Muslims wouldn't recognise your religion as Islam in a million years, since they don't see the world through the red fog of hatred which blinds you to everything except your own bigotry and bitterness.

[mareyah]

Interesting that you say "my religion" not "our religion", and for once I think you've used English correctly. Decent Muslims wouldn't recognise your religion as Islam in a million years, since they don't see the world through the red fog of hatred which blinds you to everything except your own bigotry and bitterness.

decent Muslims? didnt you say your 'anti-Muslim' on another thread? make up your mind young'un.

[CasualVisitor]

Interesting that you say "my religion" not "our religion", and for once I think you've used English correctly. Decent Muslims wouldn't recognise your religion as Islam in a million years, since they don't see the world through the red fog of hatred which blinds you to everything except your own bigotry and bitterness.
"Inshallah", if I'm not very mistaken! :cool:

[Re-born Jihadi]

i think the problem bro RBJ ultimtely rests with the confusion of culture and religion. some cannot seem to be able to differentiate between the two. Unfortunately those who are the culprits in running these cloud of confusion are guilty as people like YO...pity how some cannot 'learn'


Good post Sis. Totally agree. :thumbup:

[drepf]

decent Muslims? didnt you say your 'anti-Muslim' on another thread? make up your mind young'un.
Anti decent Muslims- no, I hope they have more babies.
I'm anti the Reborn keyboard Jihadis and JerseyLilys of this world, and proud of it.

[yorkshire observer]

i think the problem bro RBJ ultimtely rests with the confusion of culture and religion. some cannot seem to be able to differentiate between the two. Unfortunately those who are the culprits in running these cloud of confusion are guilty as people like YO...pity how some cannot 'learn'
No, no, no Mareyah. This is nothing to do with culture, I'm asking RBJ and Lumi for the circumstances in which they would presecute human beings for their beliefs.
Seeing as you're desperate to come their rescue as they're too gutless to say what they really believe, why don't you tell us all when you think it's ok to persecute people for their beliefs?
There were examples mentioned above.

[mareyah]

Anti decent Muslims- no, I hope they have more babies.
I'm anti the Reborn keyboard Jihadis and JerseyLilys of this world, and proud of it.

why do you keep adding words as you go along, dont tell me your learning?! lol

oh dear drepf i love reading your posts you actually make me smile :)

your full of contradictions drepf...when will you realise young'un? *sigh*

[yorkshire observer]

Good post Sis. Totally agree. :thumbup:
Ah, what's up, can't think of any circumstances which you wouldn't be laughed out of town with?
Poor, poor RBJ. Tries to defend the indefensible but when it comes down to it he's like the emperor's new clothes.

[CasualVisitor]

Anti decent Muslims- no, I hope they have more babies.
I'm anti the Reborn keyboard Jihadis and JerseyLilys of this world, and proud of it.
Amen!
:thumbup:

[mareyah]

Amen!
:thumbup:

casualvisitor-appears you did not read his posts on 'anti-Muslims'?

oh dear..

[Illuminate]

What a complete and utter coward you are.
Secretly ashamed you think human beings should be persecuted for their religious beliefs? Surely not.
Now show some guts and tell us.
I would be a coward if I said, I won't answer the question - I thought you knew me - I am more than willing to answer question.... as I have nowt to hide... I have discuss apostacy in islam before with PS (I think) in a previous thread - you can check my replies to him if you can't wait....

I want Rehaam to answer it first then I will answer....

[Re-born Jihadi]

Interesting that you say "my religion" not "our religion", and for once I think you've used English correctly. Decent Muslims wouldn't recognise your religion as Islam in a million years, since they don't see the world through the red fog of hatred which blinds you to everything except your own bigotry and bitterness.


decent Muslims? didnt you say your 'anti-Muslim' on another thread? make up your mind young'un.


Well Said Sis.Think Drepf's cover has been blown. :eek:

And yes, I say my religion, as it is vastly different to the one that you no doubt believe in. Real muslims practice what they preach. Not fudge the issue. Leave that to you and your ilk. :rolleyes:

And you wouldnt know a "decent muslim" if one came up to you and "booo". The only ones who exist in your warped viewpoint are those who sell themselves out, like Ed Hussain, Khalid Mahmood etc and those who (you refer to as Taleban) stand against the blood-thirst and anti-islamic hysteria that your neo-con scum are conducting.

[yorkshire observer]

I would be a coward if I said, I won't answer the question - I thought you knew me - I am more than willing to answer question.... as I have nowt to hide... I have discuss apostacy in islam before with PS (I think) in a previous thread - you can check my replies to him if you can't wait....

I want Rehaam to answer it first then I will answer....
Ahh poor thing, what's up, playing for time? Phoning a friend?
Surely you must know when you'd persecute other human beings for their religious beliefs Lumi?

[Re-born Jihadi]

Ah, what's up, can't think of any circumstances which you wouldn't be laughed out of town with?
Poor, poor RBJ. Tries to defend the indefensible but when it comes down to it he's like the emperor's new clothes.


Is that the best you can do.

As has been pointed out about other faiths living side by side in Islamic countries, but obviously you cant see that far, can you YO. :rolleyes:

[CasualVisitor]

casualvisitor-appears you did not read his posts on 'anti-Muslims'?

oh dear..
Care to enlighten me?
I can't remember him being truly anti-Muslim?
Would you mind posting a link or two to said posts?

Thanks!
:)

[yorkshire observer]

Is that the best you can do.

As has been pointed out about other faiths living side by side in Islamic countries, but obviously you cant see that far, can you YO. :rolleyes:
Other faiths living side by side is a reason to persecute people for their religious beliefs?
That's the circumstances in which you'd persecute someone for their religious beliefs?
Funny how you shrivel up when we can all see through your new clothes...

[Salutor]

Is that the best you can do.

As has been pointed out about other faiths living side by side in Islamic countries, but obviously you cant see that far, can you YO. :rolleyes:
I think that is only where there is a Muslim majority. Where Muslims are the minority there appears to be a lot of conflict, generally speaking.

[mareyah]

Care to enlighten me?
I can't remember him being truly anti-Muslim?
Would you mind posting a link or two to said posts?

Thanks!
:)

i will inshAllah hold up :)

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=537095#post537095

onwards...


his anti-Islam/Muslim is so obvious, even if he goes around with his indirect hate propoganda.

[Rehaam]

I think its you who needs to ask themselves what they have learnt about Islam and whether you know everything there is to know. I doubt if the answer is a Yes.

Less of the defensive and Looni Lumi attitude and more of an answer...Re born Jihadi - what does the Quran say....lets have an answer...Im sure youve got one lets try to make it the right one shall we?

[Re-born Jihadi]

Other faiths living side by side is a reason to persecute people for their religious beliefs?
That's the circumstances in which you'd persecute someone for their religious beliefs?
Funny how you shrivel up when we can all see through your new clothes...


What nonsense are you on about now YO.

As I told you before, you are not an "expert" in the slightest when it comes to Islam so stop pretending you know what you are talking about.

The reference to other faiths was to show you that irrespective of ones faith, whether a christian, or a jew, muslims lived side-by-side with them, and continue to do so, without the nonsense that you are bringing up.

:wave:

[yorkshire observer]

What nonsense are you on about now YO.

As I told you before, you are not an "expert" in the slightest when it comes to Islam so stop pretending you know what you are talking about.

The reference to other faiths was to show you that irrespective of ones faith, whether a christian, or a jew, muslims lived side-by-side with them, and continue to do so, without the nonsense that you are bringing up.

:wave:
Poor, poor RBJ.
Is that the sound of you scuttling away now, all embarrassed?
Do you now think there are no circumstances in which people should be persecuted for their religious belief?

[Re-born Jihadi]

Less of the defensive and Looni Lumi attitude and more of an answer...Re born Jihadi - what does the Quran say....lets have an answer...Im sure youve got one lets try to make it the right one shall we?


I think you will find its you who has been defensive. Not me lass'. :p

If you want to know more about the Quran then may I suggest you take some time out and go to your nearest Masjid. No doubt they will enlighten you with the wisdom that you seek (and are missing).;)

[Re-born Jihadi]

Poor, poor RBJ.
Is that the sound of you scuttling away now, all embarrassed?
Do you now think there are no circumstances in which people should be persecuted for their religious belief?


You should hear yourself YO.

You are like a broken record playing a really bad song. :eek:

[Illuminate]

Ahh poor thing, what's up, playing for time? Phoning a friend?
Surely you must know when you'd persecute other human beings for their religious beliefs Lumi?
playing for time - oh dear...

I have answered the question you asked before to PS - on another thread - my reply - if I reply to you - will be exactly the same thing I stated before - so how am I playing for time..I know you not the most smartiest of fellows - but if you can't wait you can search through my posts and find the reply I will give you...

[Neme]

I think you know the answer to your first 2 questions.

Islam cannot be reformed. It cannot be subjected to rationality. Unlike the Jewish and Christian bibles, the Quran is, in the minds of it's followers, the absolute word and will of god.

So there can't be a 'moderate' or 'extreme' Islam. Just 'Islam'.
I can easily imagine those living in the Christian dark ages saying just the same thing about the religion that was oppressing them.

I do believe that it is possible that Islam will emerge from the dark age it is in and embrace rationality. After all, look how many reasonable people there are on this site.

We must encourage those whose minds are open and not give in to despair.

[Re-born Jihadi]

I think that is only where there is a Muslim majority. Where Muslims are the minority there appears to be a lot of conflict, generally speaking.


Primarily because where they are the minority the society there does not take the time out to understand them.

Either that or I guess both sets of people are steeped in their "beliefs", religious or societal.

[drepf]

Well Said Sis.Think Drepf's cover has been blown. :eek:

And yes, I say my religion, as it is vastly different to the one that you no doubt believe in. Real muslims practice what they preach. Not fudge the issue. Leave that to you and your ilk. :rolleyes:

And you wouldnt know a "decent muslim" if one came up to you and "booo". The only ones who exist in your warped viewpoint are those who sell themselves out, like Ed Hussain, Khalid Mahmood etc and those who (you refer to as Taleban) stand against the blood-thirst and anti-islamic hysteria that your neo-con scum are conducting.

Your breathless schoolboy crush on the snaggle-toothed fascist Taleban vermin is symptomatic of your entire pathology- an unhealthy enthusiasm for extreme violence, murder and bloodshed whilst maintaining a safe distance between yourself and any personal risk. Do you enjoy violent video games by any chance?

[drepf]

i will inshAllah hold up :)

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=537095#post537095

onwards...


his anti-Islam/Muslim is so obvious, even if he goes around with his indirect hate propoganda.

So I am anti-Muslim because...you say I am....?
Please explain.

[Re-born Jihadi]

Your breathless schoolboy crush on the snaggle-toothed fascist Taleban vermin is symptomatic of your entire pathology- an unhealthy enthusiasm for extreme violence, murder and bloodshed whilst maintaining a safe distance between yourself and any personal risk. Do you enjoy violent video games by any chance?


I think its you who has the crush on those nazi-like vermin in tel aviv, happy in the knowledge that innocent people are disposed of in order to promote their low-life, gutter-like ideology. But hey, if thats what pleases you. :rolleyes:

We know how much you prefer the bloodshed of muslims, especially at the hands of the scum that you support.

But hey, dont let us get in the way of your warped mindset. :jawdrop:

[Re-born Jihadi]

So I am anti-Muslim because...you say I am....?
Please explain.


And thats coming from Sis Mareyah. One of the most rational members on this forum.

Speaks volumes about you :dunce: boy...:wave:

[Rehaam]

I think you will find its you who has been defensive. Not me lass'. :p

If you want to know more about the Quran then may I suggest you take some time out and go to your nearest Masjid. No doubt they will enlighten you with the wisdom that you seek (and are missing).;)

So you dont know??? Maybe its you who needs to go to the mosque then??? I know its you who doesnt....


I would be a coward if I said, I won't answer the question - I thought you knew me - I am more than willing to answer question.... as I have nowt to hide... I have discuss apostacy in islam before with PS (I think) in a previous thread - you can check my replies to him if you can't wait....

I want Rehaam to answer it first then I will answer....


Yorkshire Observer...point to be noted - RBJ doesnt know and the other little girl is hiding behind me ...ie you ask him a question but I have to answer first....

Gotta laugh!

[mareyah]

So I am anti-Muslim because...you say I am....?
Please explain.

no because of the posts you have created on this forum, i am sure your posts will enlighten others to realise the hate you have for Islam and Muslims. We are not stupid, which you are deluding yourself into thinking.

[Prague Spring]

I think that is only where there is a Muslim majority. Where Muslims are the minority there appears to be a lot of conflict, generally speaking.

Hard as I try, I can't think of anywhere where non-Muslims live side by side with a Muslim majority and enjoying equal rights and freedoms.

[drepf]

I think its you who has the crush on those nazi-like vermin in tel aviv, happy in the knowledge that innocent people are disposed of in order to promote their low-life, gutter-like ideology. But hey, if thats what pleases you. :rolleyes:

We know how much you prefer the bloodshed of muslims, especially at the hands of the scum that you support.

But hey, dont let us get in the way of your warped mindset. :jawdrop:

As even you know,by far the majority of Muslim deaths are at the hands of your "jihadi" "heroes", the Taleban and the Iraqi Muslim sectarian psychopaths. What is is about you that drives you to fan-worship these butchers?

[CasualVisitor]

i will inshAllah hold up :)

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=537095#post537095

onwards...


his anti-Islam/Muslim is so obvious, even if he goes around with his indirect hate propoganda.
May I quote?

I will not stand for people like you who clearly have no interest to stop their anti-semitic ways.

I am not prejudiced against Jewish people, so I'm not anti-Semitic.
Perhaps you mean anti-Muslim (since of course Islam has no racial basis).
I'm not anti-Muslim either.

to be anti-semitic one does not have to be a race, just as good your a islamphobe.

if your not anti-jew you are a anti-muslim

speaks for itself.
Sorry Mareyah, but that was a perfectly bad example.
You clearly have a beef with drepf. I don't reproach you for that, it is just natural. Some people like each other, some don't.

But twisting words and meanings does not count as an argument.
I stand by my statement: so far, I am not of the opinion that drepf is anti-muslim.

He is only anti-radical, anti-thick-as-a-brick, anti-idiot.
Me too.

[mareyah]

Hard as I try, I can't think of anywhere where non-Muslims live side by side with a Muslim majority and enjoying equal rights and freedoms.

palestine, you will see christians living side by side with Christians :thumbup:

[Salutor]

Primarily because where they are the minority the society there does not take the time out to understand them.
Ahhhhhhhhh, right.

Where Muslims are the minority, and there is friction, it is actually the fault of the "ignorant" majority.

[CasualVisitor]

palestine, you will see christians living side by side with Christians :thumbup:
Sure!
:p
How about them Arabs? Ah, come one in, have tea, lad!

[Re-born Jihadi]

Ahhhhhhhhh, right.

Where Muslims are the minority, and there is friction, it is actually the fault of the "ignorant" majority.


No, there is ignorance on both sides. But there are seldom fewer people who take time out to better understand one another.

I am fortunate.

I live in Beautiful Rural England and majority of my neighbours are working class or retired whites. So when I first moved here, they were keen to know about me, and vice versa, and glad to say, that over the years I know them well and they know me well.

Its all about understanding one another. It makes for harmonius existence.

[mareyah]

May I quote?

Sorry Mareyah, but that was a perfectly bad example.
You clearly have a beef with drepf. I don't reproach you for that, it is just natural. Some people like each other, some don't.

But twisting words and meanings does not count as an argument.
I stand by my statement: so far, I am not of the opinion that drepf is anti-muslim.

He is only anti-radical, anti-thick-as-a-brick, anti-idiot.
Me too.

i have no 'beef' with anyone, only refute those who wish to misinterpret Islam and make it sound a virus.

its a shame casualvisitor, that you too fail in his seeing to his hate, that is a real shame.

Someone who thinks Islam allows wife beating...and takes no heed to understand Islam protects its women folk...

^ clearly shows this 'man' hates Islam and Muslim and does not want to learn nor understand.

oh well :)

[CasualVisitor]

i have no 'beef' with anyone, only refute those who wish to misinterpret Islam and make it sound a virus.

its a shame casualvisitor, that you too fail in his seeing to his hate, that is a real shame.

Someone who thinks Islam allows wife beating...and takes no heed to understand Islam protects its women folk...

^ clearly shows this 'man' hates Islam and Muslim and does not want to learn nor understand.

oh well :)
No, but if you take a closer look at the thread you referenced, and at who of the Muslims of this board answered, and HOW they answered, then you just might see his responses in a different light.

There is one thing I don't understand anyway:
Dr. Epf presents some of his diagnoses with a somewhat ... BRITISH ... humour.
How come I, as a German, understand the subtle, viciously revealing tipness of his tongue, and you Brits don't??

Beats me.
:confused:

[Prague Spring]

palestine, you will see christians living side by side with Christians :thumbup:

I think you mean "side by side with Muslims". But you're joking right?

This is what I meant by "Muslim denial" mareyah. Christians are having a really hard time at the hands of Muslims.

During the British mandate period, Bethlehem had a Christian majority of 80%. Today, under Palestinian rule, it has a Muslim majority of 80%.

Few Christians remain in the Palestinian-controlled parts of the West Bank. Those who can - emigrate, and there will soon be virtually no Christians in the Palestinian Authority controlled areas. The Palestinian Authority is trying to conceal the fact of massive Christian emigration from areas under its control.

If persecuting minorities in un-Islamic then why not admit it's happening and oppose it. Surely THAT would make you a better Muslim than a denier.

[mareyah]

I think you mean "side by side with Muslims". But you're joking right?

This is what I meant by "Muslim denial" mareyah. Christians are having a really hard time at the hands of Muslims.

During the British mandate period, Bethlehem had a Christian majority of 80&#37;. Today, under Palestinian rule, it has a Muslim majority of 80%.

Few Christians remain in the Palestinian-controlled parts of the West Bank. Those who can - emigrate, and there will soon be virtually no Christians in the Palestinian Authority controlled areas. The Palestinian Authority is trying to conceal the fact of massive Christian emigration from areas under its control.

If persecuting minorities in un-Islamic then why not admit it's happening and oppose it. Surely THAT would make you a better Muslim than a denier.

oh yes sorry my error. indeed they live side by side, infact i have met many, and have heard of first-hand positivity which is enjoyed by the two communities. Also i wouldnt blame Christians in emigrating who wants to be blown up by Israeli missiles not to mention be caught in the middle between fatah and Hamas.

[Prague Spring]

No, there is ignorance on both sides. But there are seldom fewer people who take time out to better understand one another.

I am fortunate.

I live in Beautiful Rural England and majority of my neighbours are working class or retired whites. So when I first moved here, they were keen to know about me, and vice versa, and glad to say, that over the years I know them well and they know me well.

Its all about understanding one another. It makes for harmonius existence.

I doubt that they know your REAL views. I doubt if they did that your "existence" would be quite so "harmonious".

[yorkshire observer]

This thread is about the killing of a woman for deciding she wanted to be a Christian.
I ask again, under which circumstances do Muslims - or at least Muslims on here - claim it's ok to persecute people for their religious beliefs?

[Illuminate]

Yorkshire Observer...point to be noted - RBJ doesnt know and the other little girl is hiding behind me ...ie you ask him a question but I have to answer first....

Gotta laugh!
as you said Rehaam I am not important - and my opinions are worthless - so let the big granny - Rehaam answer first :LOL:

:D

[Illuminate]

Less of the defensive and Looni Lumi attitude and more of an answer...
obsession - goodness me - YO and Rehaam have a strong obsession with me... YO wants to pass his sexual innuendo's - Rehaam with her smiles and mentions me in her posts - you two should get hitch together - It will stop this obsession you two have about me - You can talk about me all you want to each other...

[Abdul Hafiz]

Poor, poor RBJ.
Is that the sound of you scuttling away now, all embarrassed?
Do you now think there are no circumstances in which people should be persecuted for their religious belief?

This question has already been answered about ten times above.

[yorkshire observer]

This question has already been answered about ten times above.
Nice try Abdul. Seeing as you're here and an expert, why don't you tell us the circumstances in which it's ok to persecute someone for their religious beliefs.
I posited a few examples earlier but you're free to add any of your own.

[Abdul Hafiz]

Back to square one ? That didnt take long...so you think that Quran does punish peaceful apostates?

Lets clarify what you think the Quran says...

I have provided you with evidence which I, together with the majority of the Muslims, believe governs this issue. You disagree and believe that the evidence says something else. We cannot convince one another as has been so patently demonstrated in the posts above. We therefore should agree to disagree as is proper in such situations instead of creating a flame war :)

[Prague Spring]

This thread is about the killing of a woman for deciding she wanted to be a Christian.
I ask again, under which circumstances do Muslims - or at least Muslims on here - claim it's ok to persecute people for their religious beliefs?

You'll wait a long time before you get an honest answer to that question.

Any one who supports the murder or persecution of a person, whether here or abroad, for changing their religion deserves the same tolerance or respect as a BNP Neanderthal.

And increasingly, if you look at the changing attitudes towards Muslims throughout Europe, they're getting it.

It's time WE dictated the type of Islam WE want to tolerate in our society.

All Mosques should be forced by law to display notices stating that Muslims have the right to convert to any other religion or none.

And all Imams wishing to preach in this country should be made to sign a declaration saying that they condemn the killing or persecution of converts, here and abroad, for any reason.

Those that refuse should be banned from calling themselves British Muslims.

We've got the Church of England, let's have the 'Mosque of England'. The Islam we can tolerate. And those Muslims who decide to remain outside these parameters should recieve the same rights and tolerance as other undesirable organizations such as the BNP, Stormfront and minority racist cults.

[yorkshire observer]

You'll wait a long time before you get an honest answer to that question.

Any one who supports the murder or persecution of a person, whether here or abroad, for changing their religion deserves the same tolerance or respect as a BNP Neanderthal.

And increasingly, if you look at the changing attitudes towards Muslims throughout Europe, they're getting it.

It's time WE dictated the type of Islam WE want to tolerate in our society.

All Mosques should be forced by law to display notices stating that Muslims have the right to convert to any other religion or none.

And all Imams wishing to preach in this country should be made to sign a declaration saying that they condemn the killing or persecution of converts, here and abroad, for any reason.

Those that refuse should be banned from calling themselves British Muslims.

We've got the Church of England, let's have the 'Mosque of England'. The Islam we can tolerate. And those Muslims who decide to remain outside these parameters should recieve the same rights and tolerance as other undesirable organizations such as the BNP, Stormfront and minority racist cults.
I wouldn't go that far - the BNP have no official health warnings posted on them and I don't think anyone else should in that sense.
It would be nice if there were more Muslims on the likes of this forum who knew and said persecuting people for their religious beliefs was wrong but they are in a minority. Albeit an unpleasant one.
I would like an answer to my question though.

[Illuminate]

This question has already been answered about ten times above.
and zillions times before..

[Illuminate]

I would like an answer to my question though.
we are unimportant ppl- so no use asking us...
I know what YO - ask Rehaam - loool

Back to square one ? That didnt take long...so you think that Quran does punish peaceful apostates
maybe our granny can tell us when an apostate is not a peaceful one... :D

[yorkshire observer]

and zillions times before..
Ahhh poor, poor Lumi. Can't answer so pretends his mate's provided an answer.
You're such a coward. Cowardly enough to say it's ok to persecute people for their religious beliefs in a thread about a woman killed for being a Christian and particularly cowardly for not having the guts to say in what circumstances it's ok.

[Prague Spring]

I wouldn't go that far - the BNP have no official health warnings posted on them and I don't think anyone else should in that sense.


It's not part of the BNP's constitution to kill or persecute people who leave!

These people are lower than the BNP and must be treated as such.

[Rehaam]

I have provided you with evidence which I, together with the majority of the Muslims, believe governs this issue. You disagree and believe that the evidence says something else. We cannot convince one another as has been so patently demonstrated in the posts above. We therefore should agree to disagree as is proper in such situations instead of creating a flame war :)

Evidence??

I believe that the evidence says something else....is that because it does...??

post 75 - youre quotes from the Quran explained back to you.....

(YO if you look at post 75 it will explain that there has to become offensive before some one can be persecuted in the following circumstances - there are some other verses from the Quran in the earlier posts that show that changing religion is not administered with punishment by man)
1) violated their oath
2)plotted to expel the Apostle
3) took the aggressive by being the first to assualt -

thats when there is talk of punishment by man to the chiefs...not civilians....


Back to you AH

Do you have soemthing else to quote???

And yet you still confused??

Oh I guess youre just going to follow what the majority do....so if all muslims cut tongues and burn is that what you will do??


Do I see circles?

[Illuminate]

Evidence??
see my previous post




post 75 - youre quotes from the Quran explained back to you.....

1) violated their oath
2)plotted to expel the Apostle
3) took the aggressive by being the first to assualt - thats when there is talk of punishment by man to the chiefs...not civilians....

Do you have soemthing else to quote???

And yet you still confused??

Oh I guess youre just going to follow what the majority do....so if all muslims cut tongues and burn is that what you will do??


Do I see circles?
muslim follow what islam is not what you want islam to be Rehaam - what you put up their are general things about everyone - muslim/non-muslim and apostates...

Yes I know you want to follow atheism and its outlook - try reading the quran for a change - and see what it says... like I said to you, if you read the quran you would have reject it like you do hadith...


Come on granny, you still failed to answer my question - the five pillars of islam - in your case the three pillars of islam... LOL @ Rehaam



Do I see circles?

that is usually the case when discussing with you....

[Illuminate]

Ahhh poor, poor Lumi. Can't answer so pretends his mate's provided an answer.
You're such a coward. Cowardly enough to say it's ok to persecute people for their religious beliefs in a thread about a woman killed for being a Christian and particularly cowardly for not having the guts to say in what circumstances it's ok.
as I said, you are not the sharpiest cookie in the jar - I have answered it on a previous thread - I will answer it in my own time - if you can't wait do a search of my post... do you want direction how to search my posts...

[yorkshire observer]

Poor old Lumi. Once again rumbled as a completely empty vessel.
Starts talking about how persecution is justified and then when he's put on the spot, oh dear, he tries to disappear, pretend he's not there any more.
My guess is your mate who you'd probably normally call when you're placed in a spot like this has been out today leaving you completely unable to answer for yourself.
Never mind Lumi. In your own way you do humanity a great service by posting the tripe you do.

[Illuminate]

Ahhh poor, poor Lumi. Can't answer so pretends his mate's provided an answer.
You're such a coward. Cowardly enough to say it's ok to persecute people for their religious beliefs in a thread about a woman killed for being a Christian and particularly cowardly for not having the guts to say in what circumstances it's ok.
Poor old Lumi. Once again rumbled as a completely empty vessel.

Starts talking about how persecution is justified and then when he's put on the spot, oh dear, he tries to disappear, pretend he's not there any more.

My guess is your mate who you'd probably normally call when you're placed in a spot like this has been out today leaving you completely unable to answer for yourself.

Never mind Lumi. In your own way you do humanity a great service by posting the tripe you do.


and btw - YO....did you ever answer my question...

so you want me reply to you - but you failed to reply to me.... how rich YO - it is you who is a cowardly not me....

Go back and answer my Question I asked then I will reply to you...

[Illuminate]

(YO if you look at post 75 it will explain that there has to become offensive before some one can be persecuted in the following circumstances - there are some other verses from the Quran in the earlier posts that show that changing religion is not administered with punishment by man)

lol @ Rehaam...

what is this punishement by man - looool...... you sound more like a evangelised athetistic muslim every day - oh dear...

Allah say in the quran men are his vicergent on this earth - so men themselves are free to punish ppl on behalf of god...


btw - before bonnie and clyde get their knickers in a twist - like I said this doesn't mean I hold that all apostates are free to be killed only those who cause mischief...

[Rehaam]

I wouldn't go that far - the BNP have no official health warnings posted on them and I don't think anyone else should in that sense.
It would be nice if there were more Muslims on the likes of this forum who knew and said persecuting people for their religious beliefs was wrong but they are in a minority. Albeit an unpleasant one.
I would like an answer to my question though.

You know what would be really nice....if muslims not only chased these hypocrites of the site but also off the Island....its important to be persistent with these people.... non muslims need to see that not all muslims think and behave like these deviants and if anything we are thoroughly ashamed that they make claims to be muslim....

But these people are such seasoned bullies and take the conversation this way and that ...that some muslims dont necessarily want to drop to their level .....and are afraid...just look at Loonys posts ...has he said anything useful or anything that makes sense? .... he just tries to degrade in order to control what people say ...even if it means degrading Islam ....thats their tactic...its exactly the tactic of perpetrators of violence...
1) bring sexuality into the conversation/try to degrade the other person rather then stick to the topic..
2) Go off topic - lie
3) Take away the importance that the Quran holds - ie it being word of God
4) And say that the Quran cannot be understood by the lay person - which the vast majority of it can be ...

Off the Island I say ...

[yorkshire observer]

Oh Lumi, give it up mate. You either can't say when it's ok to persecute people for their beliefs because you don't know or you're simply too embarrassed and ashamed to put the circumstances down on a forum in the year 2008.
Never mind lad, you really are helping in your own unique way if it makes you feel better.

[Illuminate]

Oh Lumi, give it up mate. You either can't say when it's ok to persecute people for their beliefs because you don't know or you're simply too embarrassed and ashamed to put the circumstances down on a forum in the year 2008.
Never mind lad, you really are helping in your own unique way if it makes you feel better.
I want you to answer my question first - you and granny always want me to answer your question - but you never answer mine...

Once you have answered mine - then I will answer yours... simple as that...

[yorkshire observer]

lol @ Rehaam...

what is this punishement by man - looool...... you sound more like a evangelised athetistic muslim every day - oh dear...

Allah say in the quran men are his vicergent on this earth - so men themselves are free to punish ppl on behalf of god...


btw - before bonnie and clyde get their knickers in a twist - like I said this doesn't mean I hold that all apostates are free to be killed only those who cause mischief...
Getting there Lumi boy. Now tell us the circumstances under which you say it's ok for human beings to be killed for their beliefs apparently causing mischief.
You were given a few examples earlier.
What about a few more, say if someone swapped from Islam and Christianity and then wanted to set up a church?
Or if someone decided to be an atheist and set up a group of like-minded people?
Enough to kill 'em or do they need to do something else?

[Illuminate]

You know what would be really nice....if muslims not only chased these hypocrites of the site but also off the Island....its important to be persistent with these people.... non muslims need to see that not all muslims think and behave like these deviants and if anything we are thoroughly ashamed that they make claims to be muslim....

But these people are such seasoned bullies and take the conversation this way and that ...that some muslims dont necessarily want to drop to their level ..just look at Loonys posts ...has he said anything useful or anything that makes sense? .... he just tries to degrade in order to control what people say ..thats their tactic...its exactly the tactic of perpetrators of violence...

Off the Island I say ...
refering to ppl and muslim as hypocrites - is trait fo yours - as you don't want muslim to follow what the islamic text says - including what the quran says... oh dear....

even those converts - white anglo saxons - you want to chase off the island - you are extremist of the worst sort... You weren't even born here...

ppl like you are just selfless, individualistic and inwards looking... you go on to sell islam and muslim down the line - how pathetic...

when ppl go to such extreme's this is where it leads to - like I said rehaam you will get your come-uppance one day...

Most muslim are not deviant - most muslim are mainstream - it are your ilk which are deviant and embarrassment to islam.....

[Illuminate]

Getting there Lumi boy. Now tell us the circumstances under which you say it's ok for human beings to be killed for their beliefs apparently causing mischief.
You were given a few examples earlier.
What about a few more, say if someone swapped from Islam and Christianity and then wanted to set up a church?
Or if someone decided to be an atheist and set up a group of like-minded people?
Enough to kill 'em or do they need to do something else?
I want you answer my question - which I asked earlier - you failed to do so...

I repeat what I said previously.....

You want me to answer my question first - you and granny always want me to answer your question - but you never answer mine...

Once you have answered mine - then I will answer yours... simple as that...

[Abdul Hafiz]

Nice try Abdul. Seeing as you're here and an expert, why don't you tell us the circumstances in which it's ok to persecute someone for their religious beliefs.
I posited a few examples earlier but you're free to add any of your own.

I am not an expert.

It is funny how in a long thread such as this things get continuously regurgitated. There must be way to improve the technology so that already stated positions are easily readable for people who join the debate half-way through.

As I said before, and repeat now again. An Islamic law governing the issue of any action in respect of people changing their religioun, practicing religious rights as a minority and everything related to it, can only be implemented in the context of Islamic State and no other. Technically speaking, even countries like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, cannot be implementing the sharia on this question for the simple reason that they completely abandon the remainder of the legal obligations flowing from the State to the religious minorities such as ensuring protection and freedom to practice without fear. One cannot adopt one aspect of Sharia, exclude others and then claim that one is doing what God has commanded.

That is why what happened to the woman is so despicable and horrific - people acting under the name of Islam but not the law of Islam to carry out terrible acts of barbarism.

Keeping the above in perspective, it can be said that in situations where the survival of the state or of the religion is threatened as well as lives of its citizens, the rights of both Muslims and non-Muslims can be curtailed.

[Abdul Hafiz]

You'll wait a long time before you get an honest answer to that question.

Any one who supports the murder or persecution of a person, whether here or abroad, for changing their religion deserves the same tolerance or respect as a BNP Neanderthal.

And increasingly, if you look at the changing attitudes towards Muslims throughout Europe, they're getting it.

It's time WE dictated the type of Islam WE want to tolerate in our society.

All Mosques should be forced by law to display notices stating that Muslims have the right to convert to any other religion or none.

And all Imams wishing to preach in this country should be made to sign a declaration saying that they condemn the killing or persecution of converts, here and abroad, for any reason.

Those that refuse should be banned from calling themselves British Muslims.

We've got the Church of England, let's have the 'Mosque of England'. The Islam we can tolerate. And those Muslims who decide to remain outside these parameters should recieve the same rights and tolerance as other undesirable organizations such as the BNP, Stormfront and minority racist cults.

This would of course be enforced against all religions in this country :)

[Prague Spring]

I am not an expert.

It is funny how in a long thread such as this things get continuously regurgitated. There must be way to improve the technology so that already stated positions are easily readable for people who join the debate half-way through.

As I said before, and repeat now again. An Islamic law governing the issue of any action in respect of people changing their religioun, practicing religious rights as a minority and everything related to it, can only be implemented in the context of Islamic State and no other. Technically speaking, even countries like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, cannot be implementing the sharia on this question for the simple reason that they completely abandon the remainder of the legal obligations flowing from the State to the religious minorities such as ensuring protection and freedom to practice without fear. One cannot adopt one aspect of Sharia, exclude others and then claim that one is doing what God has commanded.

That is why what happened to the woman is so despicable and horrific - people acting under the name of Islam but not the law of Islam to carry out terrible acts of barbarism.

Keeping the above in perspective, it can be said that in situations where the survival of the state or of the religion is threatened as well as lives of its citizens, the rights of both Muslims and non-Muslims can be curtailed.

Good post. As usual, I disagree with your ultimate vision but respect your rationality.

However, wouldn't it be better if the Islamic state allowed the convert to emigrate to a place where they weren't persecuted rather than killing them?

Illuminate, JL et al. Do you agree with the underlined bit of AH's post?

[Prague Spring]

This would of course be enforced against all religions in this country :)

It would be unnecessary, although I don't think other faiths would have a problem with it. Only Islam in seen by some Muslims to advocate the killing of those who leave.

[Abdul Hafiz]

Oh I guess youre just going to follow what the majority do....so if all muslims cut tongues and burn is that what you will do?

Well, given that your question is trivialization of the issue the answer is yes. I would follow dominant majority position, because:

The following Hadiths are the basis for my position:

1. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." (Tirmizi)

2. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam". (Abu Dawud)

3. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" (Ibn Majah)

4. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "In the period prior to the Day of Judgement, false and deceitful groups will emerge. They will say things to you, which neither you nor your forefathers will have ever heard before. Stay away from these deceitful people and do not let them come near you! Do not be misguided by them and do not let them cause strife amongst you!" (Sahih Muslim)

It is also mentioned in the Hadiths that the majority of the Muslims will not agree on a wrong:

1. "My Community shall never agree upon misguidance, therefore, if you see divergences, you must follow the greater mass or larger group." (Ibn Majah)

2. "You have to follow the Congregation for verily Allah will not make the largest group of Muhammad's Community agree on error." (Ibn Abi Shayba)

3. "Verily Allah will not make my Community agree on error." (Tirmidhi)

(SOURCE) (http://deen-islam.blogspot.com/2008/04/which-is-right-path.html)

[Illuminate]

Illuminate, JL et al. Do you agree with the underlined bit of AH's post?
I have said the gist of what brother AH has stated before...and totally agree with it.. :thumbup:

Law of Apostacy is just like treason act - as we have discuss before - no different.... only ppl who commit high treason are sentenced.... but this must be done within the context of the islamic state and within the legal framework...there is no room for vigilantes - Islam see apostacy as betrayal... hence why the quran curse's them... and does not see them as innocent ppl...

[Abdul Hafiz]

It would be unnecessary, although I don't think other faiths would have a problem with it. Only Islam in seen by some Muslims to advocate the killing of those who leave.

I can just imagine the uproar when the Christian Churches are required to display such a notice. Mail would have a field day with it.

[Abdul Hafiz]

Good post. As usual, I disagree with your ultimate vision but respect your rationality.

However, wouldn't it be better if the Islamic state allowed the convert to emigrate to a place where they weren't persecuted rather than killing them?

Illuminate, JL et al. Do you agree with the underlined bit of AH's post?

You are welcome to leave any time. In fact, to my mind, the State would not seek to impose execution on those who chose to leave.

[Rehaam]

You weren't even born here...

You cant help lying can you?

How do you know where I was born....?

another perpetrator tactic...is this how you apply your wisdom to the Quran ...make assumptions and then make claims and assertions....and then say no one can understand it ??

Just like I dont understand how you can possibly now where I was born?
:)

[Prague Spring]

You are welcome to leave any time. In fact, to my mind, the State would not seek to impose execution on those who chose to leave.

Roll on the Khalifa!

Reading your posts has inspired me to read HuT's media pack. Interesting stuff.


I can just imagine the uproar when the Christian Churches are required to display such a notice. Mail would have a field day with it.

Not sure they would, if it was the price they had to pay for Mosques doing the same.

[Rehaam]

Well, given that your question is trivialization of the issue the answer is yes. I would follow dominant majority position, because:



Even God has told you to use your mind.....and He has sent you a book ....if the majority of muslims say that cutting a Christians tongue and burning her is right then you would do it....I think that says enough.....

[Illuminate]

Oh I guess youre just going to follow what the majority do....so if all muslims cut tongues and burn is that what you will do??


Well, given that your question is trivialization of the issue the answer is yes. I would follow dominant majority position, because:

The following Hadiths are the basis for my position:

1. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." (Tirmizi)

2. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam". (Abu Dawud)

3. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" (Ibn Majah)

4. The Holy Prophet (S) said: "In the period prior to the Day of Judgement, false and deceitful groups will emerge. They will say things to you, which neither you nor your forefathers will have ever heard before. Stay away from these deceitful people and do not let them come near you! Do not be misguided by them and do not let them cause strife amongst you!" (Sahih Muslim)

It is also mentioned in the Hadiths that the majority of the Muslims will not agree on a wrong:

1. "My Community shall never agree upon misguidance, therefore, if you see divergences, you must follow the greater mass or larger group." (Ibn Majah)

2. "You have to follow the Congregation for verily Allah will not make the largest group of Muhammad's Community agree on error." (Ibn Abi Shayba)

3. "Verily Allah will not make my Community agree on error." (Tirmidhi)

(SOURCE) (http://deen-islam.blogspot.com/2008/04/which-is-right-path.html)
Rehaam does not follow hadith so no use quoting hadith...

If you look at the quran - Allah Tala says:

You are best of nation bought forth....

this means majority of muslim are muslim - working from the assumption, that only handful of ppl have understood islam and only few ppl got it right - that being ppl in the 21st century with their english quran - - like Rehaam has said.... is a real bad opinion of Allah Tala and the messenger of Allah...

best of nation is the majority of muslim who call themselves muslim and the majority are on the right path - not this assumption that only 21st century cult got it right and no one else...

This idea of not following the majority and going against tradition comes from atheistic outlook - look at the message from TV programmes, like the simpsons -the subtle message that comes out - bart rebeling against authority and tradition.... media is a powerful tool..

Indeed you ahve to follow the majority on islamic and religous matters.... if you go against it you are doomed.... hence the importance of congregation in salat...

[Illuminate]

You cant help lying can you?

How do you know where I was born....?

another perpetrator tactic...is this how you apply your wisdom to the Quran ...make assumptions and then make claims and assertions....and then say no one can understand it ??

Just like I dont understand how you can possibly now where I was born?
:)
I know you weren't because you told me...
you were born in pakistan and came here when 11 years old (or something)....

Am I wrong Rehaam....


I don't follow the quran like you do - and why do you say what I said to you to me...

[Illuminate]

Even God has told you to use your mind.....and He has sent you a book ....if the majority of muslims say that cutting a Christians tongue and burning her is right then you would do it....I think that says enough.....
majority of muslim don't say that....

majority of muslim practise their five pillars - so you reject that Rehaam...

[Rehaam]

I know you weren't because you told me...
you were born in pakistan and came here when 11 years old (or something)....

Am I wrong Rehaam....


I don't follow the quran like you do - and why do you say what I said to you to me...

No I did not tell you that i was born in Pakistan ? Not got your self Confused trying to confuse everyone else? - or is it that you just enjoy lieing for the sake of it????? (yes yes you have deleted the thread, post, messagewhere I said that I was born in Pakistan.....hmmm)

You dont follow the Quran like I do - i dont think you follow it at all...

why do I say to you to me to what? ...yeah of course this is Lumy talk doesnt always make sense.....

[Illuminate]

No I did not tell you that i was born in Pakistan ? Not got your self Confused trying to confuse everyone else? - or is it that you just enjoy lieing for the sake of it????? (yes yes you have deleted the thread, post, messagewhere I said that I was born in Pakistan.....hmmm)

You dont follow the Quran like I do - i dont think you follow it at all...

why do I say to you to me to what? ...yeah of course this is Lumy talk doesnt always make sense.....
you did tell me.... via PM..
you came to the UK when 11 (or something) years old...

come on Rehaam - I know you don't answer question - if I am wrong just tell me - that illuminate darling - I was born in the UK.... you are wrong sweet-pie illuminate :LOL: - :D - better not say darling/sweet-pie - otherwise you get YO jealous again....


You right I don't follow your quran - written by the messenger Rashad Khilafa in englsih - I follow THE QURAN - revealed throught revelation to the final prophet and messenger mohammed (saw) - 1400 years ago, in the arabic -querishi language...preserved through the hearts of majority of muslims - which you regard as hypocrites..



Before you go Rehaam - I do respect you.... it is not as though I see you exactly the same light as your mentor SQ - who has bad intention.... I do consider you have good intention - even thought I disagree with your outlook and your way regard islam and the way you see muslims... So stop playing these games of yours... and be forth-right in answering question... The sign of a hypocrite is they hide what is in their hearts... hence why I am willing to answer any question asked to - you are not.... You can't hide your heart from Allah Tala - he knows what you conceal Rehaam...

[Illuminate]

why do you say what I said to you to me...


why do I say to you to me to what? ...yeah of course this is Lumy talk doesnt always make sense.....
now you manipulating and distorting my posts :rolleyes: oh dear Rehaam is this what you have to resort to... to embarrass me... quiet sad and pathetic..

[Illuminate]

No I did not tell you that i was born in Pakistan ?
are you embarrassed Rehaam of being born and living in a pakistani village.... what takes place in these villages - the honour killings, stoning, FGM, multiple wives, black magic, worshipping graves and so on...
wouldn't your anti-islam friends like that... Rehaam the immigrant - not another one..

Remember you wanted me to explain to you more about your experience you had in your pakistan village you lived, when you where 10 years old....

Not going tell ppl what it was - your atheist friends will think the worse of you and think you are mad.... and give you neg reps... loool

Remember now Rehaam.....

[JerseyLily]

You cant help lying can you?

How do you know where I was born....?

another perpetrator tactic...is this how you apply your wisdom to the Quran ...make assumptions and then make claims and assertions....and then say no one can understand it ??

Just like I dont understand how you can possibly now where I was born?
:)

I would guess Asian and most likely Bengali

[Illuminate]

I would guess Asian and most likely Bengali
maybe Rehaam has taken on the westen philosophy to such extreme - she even think she was born in the west now....loool

[Salutor]

What is going on here.

Does it matter where someone was born?

[Rehaam]

I would guess Asian and most likely Bengali

Well at least Im not a plant....Lily....not that you have the education of cultures to detect what ethnicity I am.....even though I have indirectly mentioned it...its ok dont expect plants to clock on....


are you embarrassed Rehaam of being born and living in a pakistani village.... what takes place in these villages - the honour killings, stoning, multiple wives, black magic, worshipping graves and so on...
wouldn't your anti-islam friends like that... Rehaam the immigrant - not another one.. Ok so thats where your coming from? Interesting....Im not surprised...

Loony - Id never be embarrased of where I came from because Im not ashamed of me.....but maybe you wouldnt understand that.....


Remember you wanted me to explain to you more about your experience you had in your pakistan village you lived, when you where 10 years old....

Not going tell ppl what it was - your atheist friends will think the worse of you and think you are mad.... and give you neg reps... loool

Remember now Rehaam.....

Do you think Im afraid of what other people think of me .....Im me and thats that......a bit telling of you though isnt it?

You can tell - just try not to tell lies.....I doubt anyone will believe you ...
I discussed me seeing a Qareen at a village when 11 yes ....I saw a spirit and wanted to understand what it was and you told me what it was...is that it! Alot of us have had experiences we cannot explain....Big man Loony trying to think that I say and do things to impress.....no Loony tryiong to impress will never work just try to keep it real...


This post is so telling of you...again perpetrator tactics blackmailing someone by holding information on them.......see someone you need help....

[Rehaam]

What is going on here.

Does it matter where someone was born?

No Loony and Lily are just using perpetrator tactics...to intimidate...theres no shame if someone comes from the village....hes just not very comfortable with himself I imagine...

All Ive done is say this woman whos been killed doesnt deserve it at all....Ive backed that up with the Quran.....Full Stop

Where I was born my race, gender and my religion is irrelevant ....when I come across another human being their race, gender, religion is irrelevant what I need to remember as a muslim is that they are human and are Gods creation..If I love God then I need to love His creation and to show them the respect that they deserve and that includes their right to choose their faith....

But yeah.. what is going on here??

[JerseyLily]

Might I ask you Rehaam when and where you came to deviate from the sunna path?

Did some event happen or did you meet people who follow in the same way you do? What is your sect called?

[Illuminate]

a confrontational posts... and angry one as well

Rehaam you try to be clever but instead you got caught out...


Well at least Im not a plant....Lily....not that you have the education of cultures to detect what ethnicity I am.....even though I have indirectly mentioned it...its ok dont expect plants to clock on....
lol - what you on about -


Ok so thats where your coming from? Interesting....Im not surprised...

Loony - Id never be embarrased of where I came from because Im not ashamed of me.....but maybe you wouldnt understand that.....
lol - so you admit you weren't born in the UK - why try to act clever and pretend you didn't tell me... oh dear Rehaam you are not with it..


Do you think Im afraid of what other people think of me .....Im me and thats that......a bit telling of you though isnt it?
yes - you are are..... hence you hide what you belief - even were you where born, you try to make out I was lying about it...


You can tell - just try not to tell lies.....I doubt anyone will believe you ...
not telling lies about you - it was you who try to make out you didn't tell me that you were born outside of the UK... and I was somehow making it up


I discussed me seeing a Qareen at a village when 11 yes ....I saw a spirit and wanted to understand what it was and you told me what it was...is that it! Alot of us have had experiences we cannot explain....Big man Loony trying to think that I say and do things to impress.....no Loony tryiong to impress will never work just try to keep it real...
I am not here to impress you - some ppl don't like to discuss their expereinces - I avoid it mentioning it...I only had to mention it as you insisted I was lying.... I would also, ask were did it go...


This post is so telling of you...again perpetrator tactics blackmailing someone by holding information on them.......see someone you need help....
lol - black mail..... I am not black mailing you, with infor. it was you who denied you told me where you were born... and started to insinuinating I am lying...


There you go ppl - I wasn't making it up... Rehaam trying to act clever - she failed miserably...and got caught out..

[Illuminate]

What is going on here.

Does it matter where someone was born?
it doesn't matter at all - it was Rehaam who insinuated I was lying about she was born outside the UK - and said how do I know and coming with all this non-sense.....

I was born outside the UK as well... :)

[JerseyLily]

I wasn't born - :D I am a plant apparently, I was germinated in this country though.

[Rehaam]

it doesn't matter at all - it was Rehaam who insinuated I was lying about she was born outside the UK - and said how do I know and coming with all this non-sense.....

I was born outside the UK as well... :)

Well you dont know b/c I didnt say....I recounted an incident at the age of 11 not from birth to 11years....so dont make out you know me.....

[Illuminate]

No Loony and Lily are just using perpetrator tactics...to intimidate...theres no shame if someone comes from the village....hes just not very comfortable with himself I imagine...

All Ive done is say this woman whos been killed doesnt deserve it at all....Ive backed that up with the Quran.....Full Stop

Where I was born my race, gender and my religion is irrelevant ....when I come across another human being their race, gender, religion is irrelevant what I need to remember as a muslim is that they are human and are Gods creation..If I love God then I need to love His creation and to show them the respect that they deserve and that includes their right to choose their faith....

But yeah.. what is going on here??
I am not trying to intimidate you - it was you trying to act clever and caught out...

I actually agree that woman if the story is true shouldn't have been killed..

and no Rehaam you haven't back it up your stance from the quran... oh dear...


oh dear - it was you trying to make out I was lying and makin gstuff up about where you were born.... it is your fault for playing these games - of trying to act clever...

You got all embarrassed again... lol - you bought it on to yourself.. if you were sincere and didn't play these games then this wouldn't have happen..

[Illuminate]

Well you dont know b/c I didnt say....I recounted an incident at the age of 11 not from birth to 11years....so dont make out you know me.....
but you told me - Rehaam... you still trying to act clever...

[Muslimlarki]

are you embarrassed Rehaam of being born and living in a pakistani village.... what takes place in these villages - the honour killings, stoning, FGM, multiple wives, black magic, worshipping graves and so on...
wouldn't your anti-islam friends like that... Rehaam the immigrant - not another one..

Remember you wanted me to explain to you more about your experience you had in your pakistan village you lived, when you where 10 years old....

Not going tell ppl what it was - your atheist friends will think the worse of you and think you are mad.... and give you neg reps... loool

Remember now Rehaam.....

Brother Lumy,

Why should Rehaam or any other woman be embarrassed about being born in a village. No one has a choice whom they are born to. Be grateful you were born into a Muslim family.

My mother was born in a village and believe me they had life tough and lived it hard. We are blooming ungrateful about life in the UK with all the amenities we have!

What does it matter where she is born?

[Illuminate]

Might I ask you Rehaam when and where you came to deviate from the sunna path?

Did some event happen or did you meet people who follow in the same way you do? What is your sect called?
this is something we should consider....lot of ppl have experiences in life - especially the stuff that takes places in villages in asia - like FGM, honour killing and so on - so ppl end up rebeling..... so it is possbile that her background and experiences may have caused her to deviate from sunni islam...

[Illuminate]

Brother Lumy,

Why should Rehaam or any other woman be embarrassed about being born in a village. No one has a choice whom they are born to. Be grateful you were born into a Muslim family.

My mother was born in a village and believe me they had life tough and lived it hard. We are blooming ungrateful about life in the UK with all the amenities we have!

What does it matter where she is born?
of course no one should be embarrased being born were ever... including in Yorkshire :D

you have not gone throught the thread and what transpired - she try to make out, I was lying I knew for sure she was born outside the UK - when she was the one who told me.... she tried to be clever and got her fingers burnt... oh dear... hopefully next time she won't play these games....

[JerseyLily]

[QUOTE=Illuminate;537828]of course no one should be embarrased being born were ever... including in Yorkshire :D

AAaaaah Yes Yorkshire....... the beautiful countryside ....... the sheep..... the sheep..... more sheep.....lots more sheep.....cricket........ sheep... brass bands........ sheep ........ lambs....... yorkshire puddings ....... sheep ...... roast lamb....... sheep :zzz:

[Rehaam]

but you told me - Rehaam... you still trying to act clever...

perpetraul liar....how many times will you lie - just embarrass yourself everyone can see through you you know.....get a grip...


this is something we should consider....lot of ppl have experiences in life - especially the stuff that takes places in villages in asia - like FGM, honour killing and so on - so ppl end up rebeling..... so it is possbile that her background and experiences may have caused her to deviate from sunni islam...

Oh no Looney...my world aint that small that it needs to revolve around my expereinces....its called empathy ..... for example this woman....I can imagine her having dreams and hopes and her trying to understand the world she lives in and trying to make her God given choices she had a favorite colour, enjoyed a certain cuisine, had friends, laughed...had hopes to have a family....she was alive.........I can imagine the fear and betrayal and horror she felt when her tongue was cut out ...I can only imagine the pain, anguish, misery she felt while being burnt........


Its called empathy ....... or do you think that Ive come back from the dead and thats why i defend her right to a religion....

So basic in your little world.......

[JerseyLily]

this is something we should consider....lot of ppl have experiences in life - especially the stuff that takes places in villages in asia - like FGM, honour killing and so on - so ppl end up rebeling..... so it is possbile that her background and experiences may have caused her to deviate from sunni islam...

Would you tell me please cos I never heard of this way of Islam that you follow I dont even know what it is called

[Muslimlarki]

[QUOTE=Illuminate;537828]of course no one should be embarrased being born were ever... including in Yorkshire :D

AAaaaah Yes Yorkshire....... the beautiful countryside ....... the sheep..... the sheep..... more sheep.....lots more sheep.....cricket........ sheep... brass bands........ sheep ........ lambs....... yorkshire puddings ....... sheep ...... roast lamb....... sheep :zzz:

Don't the the mick out of Yorkshire, I for one love Yorkshire and there are more sheep in Wales!

[JerseyLily]

[QUOTE=JerseyLily;537832]

Don't the the mick out of Yorkshire, I for one love Yorkshire and there are more sheep in Wales!

huh WALES AND YORKSHIRE have a lot in common like coal mines and sheep