No Respect

[zulfi]

Is Respect the biggest danger to Muslim maintstream participation and influence since HT got intellectually beaten by MPACUK? and what can we do to neutralise this threat.

[Musab]

My £0.02

RESPECT are a danger to the Muslim vote.

In strong Muslim areas they will split the Muslim vote. There is no way on God's Earth RESPECT can run a country. Any vote for them will be just as good as staying at home. The Muslim's need influence in parties in power or parties with a chance of getting power.

[UmmZakariya]

any point encouraging them in local elections... :confused:

[Yusuf Smith]

I was helping RESPECT in the run-up to the council elections, but there is no way they could win a single seat in the general election next year (if that's when it's held) except (possibly) in Galloway's own seat, because the voting system is different - it's first past the post so a vote for a losing candidate is a wasted vote. Also, we should be careful of some of the people in RESPECT anyway as they are extreme Socialists (members of the Socialist Workers' Party). We are not just campaigning on Palestine but on local issues, and RESPECT favour stupid ideas like the westward congestion charge extension etc, and remember that communists are not friends of Muslims or Islam even if they use us to get themselves into power. Probably if they ever manage this, there would pretty quickly be a split between Galloway and the other Christian socialists and the Muslims on one hand, and the Socialist Workers on the other, which could get very bloody.

The other thing is that Galloway told a campaign meeting in a curry house in Hounslow that "w'Allahi" people would be putting a bullet in a Palestinian's back by voting Labour, well if the 'ulama' cannot persuade the people to boycott coca-cola by saying they are funding Israel, how can Galloway hope to when he's not even Muslim?

[br ash]

I was helping RESPECT in the run-up to the council elections, but there is no way they could win a single seat in the general election next year (if that's when it's held) except (possibly) in Galloway's own seat, because the voting system is different - it's first past the post so a vote for a losing candidate is a wasted vote. Also, we should be careful of some of the people in RESPECT anyway as they are extreme Socialists (members of the Socialist Workers' Party). We are not just campaigning on Palestine but on local issues, and RESPECT favour stupid ideas like the westward congestion charge extension etc, and remember that communists are not friends of Muslims or Islam even if they use us to get themselves into power. Probably if they ever manage this, there would pretty quickly be a split between Galloway and the other Christian socialists and the Muslims on one hand, and the Socialist Workers on the other, which could get very bloody.

The other thing is that Galloway told a campaign meeting in a curry house in Hounslow that "w'Allahi" people would be putting a bullet in a Palestinian's back by voting Labour, well if the 'ulama' cannot persuade the people to boycott coca-cola by saying they are funding Israel, how can Galloway hope to when he's not even Muslim?


U are right, respect have very little or no chance other than Galloway.


Issue regarding boycotting coke-cola you do not need some imam giving a fatwa or sermon in the banning of Coca-Cola. First of all nobody listens to imams in the first place.

They talk about reading 5 namaz per day, do the Muslim population at large then follow, nope. If they did we would not have a enough mosques.

What has happened is that Imams are a focal point. That is all.

Yes imams do have some influence , but that is limited, only to the point that what people want to be influenced on.


Mosque is the focal point, if utilised yes, it can be very effective, but if one has a bunch of illiterate running (i.e. the committee) the mosque, one can only expect very little from it. Yes there are some mosques that are very highly politically organised, they just happen to centre their universe on Blair. Saying that there are some mosques that have come out in opposition, the word some applies.


Now if you want a boycott of Coca-Cola it can be done, but only a fool would use the mosques to spread the message in the first place. Saying that only a fool would use the mosques to spread political message unless he controlled the mosque committee, normally that would mean, already siding with one political party or another, mainly the Labour Party.


Also one has to remember that many of the mosques are more or less little clubs run for the select benefit of the members of the club, i.e. Mosque Committee.

Now if one wanted to create a effective campaign against coke, I would then recommend that these mosques members are bribed with free supply of a competitors product. Remember that Coca-Cola gives free samples to Hajis to quench their thirst during Haj.

I would also recommend that the producers of the alternative Coke should also at least during Ramadan supply enough bottles of their product for the fasties when they break there fast in the MOSQUE.

Another idea would be for the die hards amongst you to wear tea shirts etc with the logo with (as an idea) "Drink a can of Coke and Kill a Palistian" written on.

You have to think of innovative ways to put your message forward.

No disrespect to you all, in the world of marketing there is a simple rule the audience is stupid, you have to make them feel intelligent, in making them feel that they are making the correct decision.

People are motivated by many different reasons.

Some people are motivated to say read Namaz due to the love of Allah

Some are motivated due to fear of Allah.

Some are indifferent. I am a sure members of this forum can come up with many more.

Remember that if some one is motivated due to the love of Allah, and the Imam is giving a lecture by putting the fear of Allah into one, most likely that individual would switch off and would not consider the imam in a positive way.

Now saying all this there one breed of Muslims that are neither motivated due to the fear of Allah or by the love of Allah, this group is most commonly known as the Imams and the Mosque committees in the UK.

Salaam



Ash

[thehook]

Assalaamu alaikum br ash

Spot on mate! Marketing, if we use it properly, its a mean machine!

[Raeesa]

In my personal opinion wouldn't it be better to vote for Respect than vote for no party at all?

[br ash]

In my personal opinion wouldn't it be better to vote for Respect than vote for no party at all?


Wasted vote, unless it is used to elect Galloway. It is far better to invest that vote in with the Conservative Party, they will be in power in within seven years. We might as well start to invest in the Conservative party, so as to reap the harvest in 7 years time.

Salaam


ash

[Raeesa]

Wasted vote, unless it is used to elect Galloway. It is far better to invest that vote in with the Conservative Party, they will be in power in within seven years. We might as well start to invest in the Conservative party, so as to reap the harvest in 7 years time.

Salaam


ash

Intresting, even with there pro war ideas.?
I don't see what they can offer to us as Muslims.

[br ash]

Intresting, even with there pro war ideas.?
I don't see what they can offer to us as Muslims.

We have to plant seeds for the future? The future of the Ummah is as important as the present, if not more.

There are plenty of Conservative who are anti war. The first MP to resign from his post was a Conservative MP, and not a Labour MP regarding the Iraq.


Salaam


Ash

[Raeesa]

We have to plant seeds for the future? The future of the Ummah is as important as the present, if not more.

There are plenty of Conservative who are anti war. The first MP to resign from his post was a Conservative MP, and not a Labour MP regarding the Iraq.


Salaam


Ash


I agree we have to plant the seeds for the future, however I fail to see how the conservative party can assist in that.

[TheBatman]

WHY THE CONSERVATIVES?

Aa

Raeesa, remember the parties that act against Muslims (and thats all of them) only act that way because someone proposes a motion and the members vote for it.

So if we dont join the conservatives and they become the next Government, we will have no one in the Conservative party to object to draconian laws!

So if your MP in your area is a conservative and he is pro Palestinian and pro Muslim (over and above the others) plus has a chance of winning, vote for him or her, and you will find all parties start having friendly faces within them.

ws

BATMAN

[Raeesa]

Makes sense, but then what is lib dem's win? ...they're becoming stronger by the day

I find it really worrying when Muslims forecast who will win and who to vote for. I remember the previous elections in America when it was Bush and Al-Gore, hundreds of Islamic websites encouraged people to go for Bush because he was the "lesser evil" look where it got us...

[lady_murasaki_sa]

Rather than the Conservatives, I'd say it looks like that Muslims' real investment might be the Lib Dems - people are hard pressed to tell the difference between 'New Labour' and the 'Caring Conservatives', and are rapidy becoming disillusioned with them both. The Lib Dems, though, have surprised the political pundits in recent years by winning victories or at least weakening the vote in areas where the conservatives or labour were thought to rule with an iron fist.

I dont think the Lib Dems will be in any position of real power for a good few years yet, but this can also be turned to an advantage; getting into the party at a grass roots level will count not only in terms of the loyalty that will be owed from the party to its members when power is achieved, but also when people become increasingly dissillusioned with the Reds and Blues, and so may be looking for viable alternatives in the future.

Well, that's my reasoning anyway. What do you all think?

ma asalamah and take care

[br ash]

Rather than the Conservatives, I'd say it looks like that Muslims' real investment might be the Lib Dems - people are hard pressed to tell the difference between 'New Labour' and the 'Caring Conservatives', and are rapidy becoming disillusioned with them both. The Lib Dems, though, have surprised the political pundits in recent years by winning victories or at least weakening the vote in areas where the conservatives or labour were thought to rule with an iron fist.

I dont think the Lib Dems will be in any position of real power for a good few years yet, but this can also be turned to an advantage; getting into the party at a grass roots level will count not only in terms of the loyalty that will be owed from the party to its members when power is achieved, but also when people become increasingly dissillusioned with the Reds and Blues, and so may be looking for viable alternatives in the future.

Well, that's my reasoning anyway. What do you all think?

ma asalamah and take care


When you say Lib Dems will not be in power for a good few years, means that they will not be in power. Simply because over time the seats that they have won, they lose after a number of years.

There are only two political parties that matter, one Labour the other Conservative. The issue is are the Muslims going to do the stupid thing and invest in a political party that at the most if it continued on the present basis, would not be in power for 70-100 years, and that is a BIG IF.

The Conservative party has taken on more new members than Lib Dems and Labour.

Hindus, Sikhs, Jewish, Note that Jewish on a whole are more pro Labour than the Conservatives. Even other ethnic minorities are joining are joining the Conservative party. They are planting there seeds for the future harvest, they do not have to be educated, they do not have to be told, they do so because they want to have there influence on the future government. Unlike Muslims, who have very little understanding of strategy.

Libs Dem Muslim leaders are mainly Labour rejects on the whole, Muslims who could not be selected to stand for seats in the Labour party, because of racism within the Labour party. They joined the Libs, who welcomed them with open arms as they could not win the seats in the first place. Lib Dems only use the Muslim candidates for Muslim/Asian wards. Following the same strategy as Labour.

A Muslim vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote in the long term.

Conservative will come into power around 2010, they will then be in Power for a 20 years plus. Lots of the pundits are predicting that.

Conservative men in grey are already planing that grass routes have no say in the selection of the party leader after the next election. The Conservative men in grey want a continuation of leadership after the coming election, so that Michael Howard leads the party into 2010. At that election the Conservatives will be in Power.

Now if the Muslims want to make the same mistakes that they have made in the past so be it.



Salaam


Ash

[Raeesa]

It'll be interesting to see how things go. But I still do not have faith in the conservative leadership. Its a mess, where no one seems to have any control.

[Brother F]

Is Respect the biggest danger to Muslim maintstream participation and influence since HT got intellectually beaten by MPACUK? and what can we do to neutralise this threat.

Yes, Respect are a big danger to Muslims in Britain.

And when did HT become a danger to Muslims in Britain and why? And when did MPACUK intellectually beat them?

[LalaHabal]

Is Respect the biggest danger to Muslim maintstream participation and influence since HT got intellectually beaten by MPACUK? and what can we do to neutralise this threat.

I suspect that you all know but I am making an obvious point here but worth reminding our selves. Also I find that most Muslims are not aware of this.

"Respect" was a name change of a Political Party that already existed for many years with old left wing out of date ideas, called "Socialist Workers Party". Do you remember them?

They basically used the War in Iraq and Galloway to re brand the Party. It does not change their culture or phoilosophy on anything else. They have no substance for the rest of the life in UK. Given this, can they suceed? The answer is, only where they can fool people, people who are not versed in British Politics or its history. Namely, the out of touch Muslims!

Yes Galloway has alot of Support in Tower Hamlets but amongst whom? Yes you have guessed it, the Bangladeshi Muslims? Does it mean He can win there? I am afraid not. Labour and Lib Dem have long divided Muslim community between them selves for many years and run the Council there. While some of Muslim vote is going to Respect, not enough to make any difference to Labour Seat held by Una King who voted for the War?

Something for MPACUK to work on? But who's side will you take?

[LocalGenius]

I say vote for Lib DEms and give them a chance. For those who hate labour and cant just the tories yet vot for Lib DEms

Lib Dems have had their governemnt in Scotland and Wales and the results have been good. Why not give them a try. Im gonna vote for them in the next coming election

[LalaHabal]

When you say Lib Dems will not be in power for a good few years, means that they will not be in power. Simply because over time the seats that they have won, they lose after a number of years.

There are only two political parties that matter, one Labour the other Conservative. The issue is are the Muslims going to do the stupid thing and invest in a political party that at the most if it continued on the present basis, would not be in power for 70-100 years, and that is a BIG IF.

The Conservative party has taken on more new members than Lib Dems and Labour.

Hindus, Sikhs, Jewish, Note that Jewish on a whole are more pro Labour than the Conservatives. Even other ethnic minorities are joining are joining the Conservative party. They are planting there seeds for the future harvest, they do not have to be educated, they do not have to be told, they do so because they want to have there influence on the future government. Unlike Muslims, who have very little understanding of strategy.

Libs Dem Muslim leaders are mainly Labour rejects on the whole, Muslims who could not be selected to stand for seats in the Labour party, because of racism within the Labour party. They joined the Libs, who welcomed them with open arms as they could not win the seats in the first place. Lib Dems only use the Muslim candidates for Muslim/Asian wards. Following the same strategy as Labour.

A Muslim vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote in the long term.

Conservative will come into power around 2010, they will then be in Power for a 20 years plus. Lots of the pundits are predicting that.

Conservative men in grey are already planing that grass routes have no say in the selection of the party leader after the next election. The Conservative men in grey want a continuation of leadership after the coming election, so that Michael Howard leads the party into 2010. At that election the Conservatives will be in Power.

Now if the Muslims want to make the same mistakes that they have made in the past so be it.
Salaam
Ash

Ash
I found the list of authoritive statements in piece amasing? Are you a political pundit? If so please enlighten us about your statements and prophesies? for instance:

1 You say Lib dem "will not" be inpower for 70 years. How do you arrive at this?

2 Conservative are getting more members than other two Parties. Have you got the figures? Please give us these. and also the split of Muslim Members.

3 Which Pundits are predicting 2010 as Cons coming to power. The last few polls by Telegraph and Independant and Guardian and Channel 4 have all shown Micheal Howard with Lower personal vote than William Hague just before he resigned.

4 The only Asian Conservative that I have ever meet is wealthy who feels that association takes him to upper class society, a sort of social climb they wish to acheive when no other way is available to them.

5 Where do you get this term "Labour Rejects"? Do you know Labour Party has lost half of its membership over the last three years? A very small part of that half was Muslims, most of these are English people who think there Party has been highjacked by the New Labour. So these people have actually "LEFT LABOUR". They are than free to go where they like and if they choose Lib Dem instead of the Conservatives is must be right for them.

6 As far as Micheal Howard and Conservative Leadership is concerned, his own seat is under threat. He had 3000 majority in 2001. Followiung year he lost the Council control to the Lib Dem. The Lib Dem are now treating this as one of their top target seat to decapitate the Conservative Leadership. Go and look at the figures in that constituency.

Lala