Either Vote or go on the dole?

[Hater_of_the_Wall]

Can someone explain please?

The scholars say you can vote, one of the arguments put forward is that it is choosing the lesser of two evils
(example fatwa http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=1150& )

….Some people say that you shouldn’t vote, as you should not be part of the kuffar legislative system. They do not accept the lesser of two evils argument as they say there is no compulsion so you have the option to abstain and affect society through direct action & lobbying etc

…According to them voting is voting for legislation other than that of Allah
…So is not Income tax funding the implementation of legislation other than that of Allah?

Your income tax pays for
....the cluster bombs that shred the limbs of innocent children
…. the bombs that fall from the sky not discriminating between young & old, innocent & guilty
…. for the primary schools that teach that there are “different types of family”
…. for the spin and the spinners that weave a web of deceit until all is forgotten in a mist of fine words
And last but not least your income tax pays the salaries of those who legislate with a law other than the law of Allah

Why do the people who say you should abstain from voting NOT abstain from paying income tax?

In this country you can live with adequate food, clothing & shelter courtesy of the welfare state.

Thus NOT paying any income tax and therefore according to their logic NOT endorsing the kuffar legislative system through their economic earning power

…Surely if they followed through on their logic….

….they should all really be on the dole…?

****************************************************
In this society there is no choice, you will always be part of the kufar legislative system, either politcally or economically. Your only real option is to move abroad if you want abstain or you can take the fatwa of the people of knowledge and make a real difference. I hope Allah guides us all to the truth with unity and strength on May the 5th
****************************************************

[abdulmojid]

lesser of the two evils

[UmmZakariya]

but these people are willing to go on the dole, take benefits, even lobby their MP's for their own needs like housing, immigration ( i have seen it happen Ht supporters on here have said that ok) but they will not vote or lobby so that other people can benefit from their action of enjoining the good and forbidding the wrong.

[Yahya]

…Surely if they followed through on their logic….

….they should all really be on the dole…?


Why do people keep talking about those who oppose voting being on the dole?

Is this an HT policy or a form of abuse?

[St. George]

Dont't forget the tax money spent looking after muslim asylum seekers or tax money sent to third world countries that can't feed themselves.

Of course their was tax money sent to indonesia after the Tsunami.

While we are on the subject their was tax money spent in the war around Bosnia. All of these things help Muslims.

This thread really is the dumbest thing i have read on this site.

The answer is simple if you don't want to vote. DON'T.

Britain is a free, fair and just country.

[Hater_of_the_Wall]

[QUOTE=This thread really is the dumbest thing i have read on this site. if you don't want to vote. DON'T. Britain is a free, fair and just country.[/QUOTE]


This post is about certain muslim individuals chosing to ignore the advice given by the majority of muslims scholars which in a nutshell say's that muslims in this country should participate fully in the voting process with aim of spreading good throughout society. The individuals who abstain base there arguments on warped logic, it is the concequence and the double standards of this logic that I was pointing out.

Since on the surface of it you appear to be a non-muslim I will breifly explain what is essentially an islamic ideological issue. As muslims we believe in revelation. As in the Bible & Torah, there were laws to govern society. In islam there is the Shariah, a complete and divinly revealed law. To a muslim there is no greater ideal - as none can perfect the actions of One who is Perfect (God All-Mighty). Since we are in a non-muslim country some muslims are confused as to how to enact politically, assuming that since the law of this country is not divine it is idelogically incorrect to support its establishment and enactment especially through the casting of a vote. This is an incorrect understanding refuted by islamic scholars. The argument of the abstainers is based on logic and reason based on limited/incorrect understanding of Islamic texts.

Simply put: They say voting is Kufr (an act of disbelief), I say if your logic is true then you should not participate in ANY form of condonment of this non-divine law. In this country you can choose to work or you can abstain and still not starve, so by their (unsound) reasoning they should neither vote nor pay income tax.

...of course I believe Muslims should follow the sound advice of scholars and particpate fully to maximise the good in this society in all levels of life.

...................................................................... .....................

regarding your second point:


[QUOTE=St. George] Dont't forget the tax money spent looking after muslim asylum seekers or tax money sent to third world countries that can't feed themselves. QUOTE]

spending billions on wars, pursuing a self-interest foreign policy of economic colonialism, supporting state sponsored terrorism and ignoring how many UN resolution isreal breaks...

mmm... imagine a guy who robs you one day, rapes your sister the next and on the third days calls you ungrateful because he threw a few scaps at your starving kids.... not MY IDEA OF A HERO!

When you judge, judge all actions, if it is justice you seek.

Its true that UK Governement helped innocent muslims in the Tsunami, Its true that muslims as do others benefit from assylm policy as well as many other policies in this country. It is also true that British Government particiapted in a war that tore apart a whole country, distroying schools, hospitals, drastically increasing malnutrition amongst children. Embarked on an internationally illegal war and destablised a whole region just to depose a dictator they helped put in place. The money spent bombing Afganistan for instance far outweighs any commitment to aid or rebuilding the country. Such lopsided foreign policy is hardly spreading good and improving relations in this world.

Most of the poverty on this earth today is a man-made phenomen. Why are the countries with the most fertile lands, all the minerals and resources some of the most poorest nations in the world. If any one government was really interested in anything apart from self-interest it is actually quite easy to stop things like millions of deaths due to water related diseases. The world today is designed to keep the status-quo, keeping most wealth & power to the few

Techonoligies change but people remain the same.. the examples of the evil-doers are clear in the Qur'an, be their name John or Farooq all will be held to account for the corruption they spread.

[UmmZakariya]

good post hater of the wall, george hasnt bothered to read the about mpacuk section he asked me if i was going to vote, he doesnt understand why some Muslims dont want to and wish to intimidate/convince other Muslims into abstaining too...i advise him again read up about MPACUK and understand what we are attempting to do.

[br ash]

Why do people keep talking about those who oppose voting being on the dole?

Is this an HT policy or a form of abuse?

Number of HT and there ilk love eating haram income. Any one who deceives and lies to take benefits, is eating haram income. Number of HT members and there ilk are on state benefits. They prefer to lie and deceive so as to take state benefits.


Salaam


Ash

[UmmZakariya]

in my experience HT work and pay taxes to the kufr government! and also prefer to to pay zakat to charities which operate within kufr system ( i have heard this personally from HT members they also didnt defend Interpal when its assets were frozen) its the loonies who live off benefits this has been corroborated by OBM himself who told the Mirror,

'Islam allows me to take the benefit the system offers. I'm fully eligible. It is very difficult for me to get a job. Anyway, most of the leadership of the Islamic movement is on [state] benefit.'"

In the Times when questioned about being on benefits he said:

"Ask the Muslim people where they would prefer their taxes to be spent—on me, or homosexuals, lesbians or Jews".

erm as i tax paying Muslim i dont like my taxes being spent on him neither would many others Muslims or non-Muslim. Why doesnt he get a job? Why who funds the loonies none of them seem to work where do they get money for a website, leaflets, stickers etc????

[maxfire]

Does anyone know how many of the eligible muslim voters have actually voted in past elections? or at least an estimate of the percentage.

[UmmZakariya]

check out http://www.mvuk.co.uk/survey_b.asp?survey_id=1

gives an indication...

[maxfire]

The reason I asked was that I was trying to make a point in response to a brother who was arguing that there is no point in voting since the muslims have being voting for ages and that that their voice weren't and still not being heard.

As I suspected, a significant number of muslims have not voted at the last elections and most probably in previous ones. My point was why should politicians care about muslims (who are a minority anyway) when a significant number of them don't bother to vote. They would rather concentrate on groups who have a higher turn out on election days like the pensioners.

No wonder muslims in this country are the lowest of low when it comes to soical indicators like education, housing and health. We can't complain about the system and our state of affairs by being silent at the time our voices matter the most. Politicians will only show interest when we have something to offer them. So how can we say the politician are not listening to us when we are not using our votes and making our voices heard.

[khilafah4islam]

The reason I asked was that I was trying to make a point in response to a brother who was arguing that there is no point in voting since the muslims have being voting for ages and that that their voice weren't and still not being heard.

As I suspected, a significant number of muslims have not voted at the last elections and most probably in previous ones. My point was why should politicians care about muslims (who are a minority anyway) when a significant number of them don't bother to vote. They would rather concentrate on groups who have a higher turn out on election days like the pensioners.

No wonder muslims in this country are the lowest of low when it comes to soical indicators like education, housing and health. We can't complain about the system and our state of affairs by being silent at the time our voices matter the most. Politicians will only show interest when we have something to offer them. So how can we say the politician are not listening to us when we are not using our votes and making our voices heard.

And why do half the population not vote?

[UmmZakariya]

have being voting for ages and that that their voice weren't and still not being heard.

define 'ages' most of us have only been here 30/40 years most are only second generation have only voted twice like me. There voice want heard because they didnt join and take active part in political parties, they didnt lobby MP's/media/institutions now they are doing this and inshallah will continue to do so and ensure their voice is heard inshallah. Some people on here want Muslims to sit back and do nothing adopt their defeatist attitude, Muslims are not doing that the anti-political participation Muslims get more and more desperate in their arguments, denounciations and accusations.