MPAC's policy on freemixing [Archive] - MPACUK

Tahira

02-05-2005, 05:42 PM

Doesn't everybody walk down the street where there are both men and women? So suddenly if we're walking down the same street with a placard against Jack Straw we have to segregate the street?

Ofcourse Islam teaches us that there are appropriate boundaries between men and women. But surely Allah has instructed us to dress modestly in public so that men and women can both participate in public life. Let's remember that in the time of the prophet (pbuh) women took part fully in public life.

Please let's not stop sisters from helping to prevent the murder, torture and rape of their fellow Muslims around the world because of an extreme intepretation that seeks to exclude women from contributing.

Personally what I'm concerned about is that Muslims are spending all their time debating non-questions and coming up with excuses while the Ummah is being slaughtered.

ayqazi

02-05-2005, 06:15 PM

There's this Hadith (I forget what the reference, perhaps a learned sister or brother could present the reference) from al-Bukhari that says that Prophet peace be apon him once while riding on a camel saw a non-Mahram woman carrying some heavy stuff (like wheat or something) and offered to have her sit behind him on his camel. He couldn't see her, they would have been in full view of the public, so we can deduce that it should be OK for ladies to ride in the back of cars with men - I suppose.

Jazakallah,
Asfand Yar

Yahya

02-05-2005, 06:54 PM

Assalaamu Alaykum Warahmatulahi Wabarakatuh

Can members of MPACUK please tell me their policy on freemixing.

I live in Ilford and I have seen their brothers and sisters distributing leaflets together, and even leave together in the same car (and they were all non-mehram to one another).

Also from the pictures I saw of the march in blackburn, men and women were not segregated at all. I can understand not making the non-muslims there segregate but at least the Muslims should segregate.

Is this acceptable or not?

(This is not an attack, I am just concerned)

Could you give me a hadith or ayat which indicate why this should not be permitted? I thought that there would only be a problem in cases where a non-mahram men and woman mixed in private.

Sayf

02-05-2005, 06:54 PM

Asalamu Alaikum,

Is it just me or do Hizb ut Tahrir members ask some dumb questions, I mean just because MPACUK does not follow your ways doesn't mean that they do not follow Islam. You guys make me sick, like one plonker was asking whats the position of MPACUK as regards to Gays. This is to those thick heads, MPACUK is a Islamic Organistion, not a Lunatic Organistion, whos ex members (Bakri) came from.

abdulmojid

02-05-2005, 09:26 PM

Asalamu Alaikum,

Is it just me or do Hizb ut Tahrir members ask some dumb questions, I mean just because MPACUK does not follow your ways doesn't mean that we do not follow Islam. You guys make me sick, like one plonker was asking whats the position of MPACUK as regards to Gays. This is to those thick heads, MPACUK is a Islamic Organistion, not a Lunatic Organistion, whos ex members (Bakri) came from.

that plonker was me, and i asked that question for a reason actually.

and in the demo, men and women should have been segregated, i mean, its common sense really, aint it?

stroppy teenager

02-05-2005, 10:48 PM

oh gime a break. mpac r out there doin good work for the good of the ummah and yr complainin bout them bein in the same car breathin in the same air. get over yrselves honestly wot is it with u ppl :confused:

Tahira

02-05-2005, 11:09 PM

I suppose the people who use 'free mixing' as an excuse not to go to a march will also use that as an excuse not to go for Hajj - cos the type of complete segregation in public places that you're demanding about doesn't even happen on hajj, because there's nothing in Islam against men and women sharing the same public space (bring the evidence if I'm wrong).

The same people are often the ones preventing women from being able to pray in the mosques - we're only welcome in the mosque in a coffin for our own funerals! Which is ironic cos putting obstacles in the way of political jihad will mean more Muslim sisters in coffins in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Chechenya...

Sayf

02-05-2005, 11:12 PM

The same people are often the ones preventing women from being able to pray in the mosques - we're only welcome in the mosque in a coffin for our own funerals! Which is ironic cos putting obstacles in the way of political jihad will mean more Muslim sisters in coffins in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Chechenya... Beautifully said my dear Sister!!

Basayev

03-05-2005, 12:17 AM

Which is ironic cos putting obstacles in the way of political jihad will mean more Muslim sisters in coffins in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Chechenya...

Salam alakyum

I dont mean to be rude but what exactly have MPACUK done as an organisation to liberate these lands and stop these killings?? , apart from maybe occasionlly slandering the mujahideen or sometimes refusing to discuss them.

What has political jihad done for these lands??

Sayf

03-05-2005, 12:35 AM

Sorry to say this, but you wouldn't understand as you do not have the mentality to hold it, I mean come onnnnnnnnnnnn, do they have to freaking shout in your ear to tell you why they are getting rid of JAck Straw, Mike Gapes, Oona King?????

I mean come on, don't you bother to read or learn what mpacuk are doing to help Muslims around the world????

I can't believe that we have dumb Muslims asking such stupid questions and abive all its members or sympathizers of Hizb ut Tahrir.

Basayev

03-05-2005, 12:52 AM

Sorry to say this, but you wouldn't understand as you do not have the mentality to hold it, I mean come onnnnnnnnnnnn, do they have to freaking shout in your ear to tell you why they are getting rid of JAck Straw, Mike Gapes, Oona King?????

Salam alaykum

Brother , you have not answered the question. I asked what they have done to stop the killing and liberate these lands? They may get a rid of a few individual politicians (or try to at least) but that wont stop the war in iraq or chechnya. That wont stop the killing of muslim brothers and sisters in the streets of Grozny or Kabul.

I can't believe that we have dumb Muslims asking such stupid questions and abive all its members or sympathizers of Hizb ut Tahrir.

The question wasnt stupid at all. I havent seen what MPACUK have done to stop the slaughter of muslims. The only people who have made or are making a real difference are the Mujahaideen around the world. Not MPACUK.

sunilight

03-05-2005, 01:36 AM

salaams

is this a ht question?
i have been with ht in the back of cars driven by brothers...

shock horror..

i dont think ht are that petty

NNA2001

03-05-2005, 09:01 AM

salaams

is this a ht question?
i have been with ht in the back of cars driven by brothers...

shock horror..

i dont think ht are that petty

as far as know, i dont think it is a problem if you have been driven by non-mehram brothers as long as you do not have khalwah (privecy) with them. but even in the car the free mix can occur if they chit chat unnecessarily.

UmmZakariya

03-05-2005, 09:33 AM

That wont stop the killing of muslim brothers and sisters in the streets of Grozny or Kabul.

so what will? what are you doing? What have you done to help? i already told you we support the oppressed and will continue to do so but that isnt enough you just cant stop belittling MPACUK all the while admittign you dont even know that much about us! Do you now who Ahmed Zakayev is? We lobbied the government to stop him from being extradited. Look up the case. We condemned the Russian government and argued against the vilification of the Chechyans after the cinema siege. We want this government to put pressure on Russia to stop their oppression in Chechnya, we support the work of charities there as i have said before we support the struggle for self-determination there and we want to vote in or convince polticians and media in this country to do the same. But again that isnt enough for you is it? BUt then again what are you doing?? If you are so obessed with the mujahideen go and join them what are you doing here working and making so much money?

Which mpacer slandered the mujahideen? Pls note not all posters on here are mpacers.Can you pls stop slandering MPACUK?

MPACUK have been around a few years and you expect us to have stopped wars and liberated lands?? duh! Inshallah we will affect more positive change but it will take time and effort. Pls do some reasearch on mpacuk pls read our about mpacuk section ( whih you still havent obviously) and understand what the role of a LOBBY is meant to be. You ignorance and irrational hatred of MPACUK is mind boggling.

chit chat unnecessarily.

NNA2001 can you stop chit chatting unecessarily and making stupid assumptions in yet another pathetic attempt to discredit mpacuk. I have been leafleting in Ilford and guess what it was with my husband and my son. I suppose you will even attempt to look for scandal there! Anything to attack MPACUK!

(This is not an attack, I am just concerned)

this is very much an attack and attempt to discredit mpacuk and if only you were as concerned about the Ummah as you are concerned about men and women walking down a street together. Your comments are a disgrace.

Yahya

03-05-2005, 10:05 AM

Salam alakyum

I dont mean to be rude but what exactly have MPACUK done as an organisation to liberate these lands and stop these killings?? , apart from maybe occasionlly slandering the mujahideen or sometimes refusing to discuss them.

What has political jihad done for these lands??

While I wouldn't say this was completely down to MPACUK, patient political work across the spectrum has shifted attitudes towards both Palestine and Iraq. The fact is that most Europeans are on the right side of the argument on both questions.

It was so long ago that only the Zionist view was heard. Now the Zionists themselves are worried about their unpopularity in Europe.

The last point a make is the most difficult for me, but it has to be said. I always defend mujaideen to critical muslims and non-muslims alike. Even after 9/11 or Beslan, I passionately defended our right to defend ourselves and their indifference to our children and innocent civilians. I never let a word of criticism pass my lips, except for our enemies.

But let me ask now: Are we winning?

Can the heroes in all our struggles defeat our enemies, the greatest military powers on Earth, by military resistance alone?

We are weak and devided. Our rulers are corrupt traitors who fawn over the Americans. Our peoples are in despair. Our mujahideen are isolated.

Perhaps what we need most now is a political jihad; To weaken our enemies from within. To sow doubts in their minds. And, most importantly to renew ourselves in unity and purpose, so we can carry all our stuggles to victory.

MPACUK is far from accomplishing that, no doubt. But is anyone else even trying? You tell me, I don't know.

UmmZakariya

03-05-2005, 10:19 AM

MPACUK is far from accomplishing that, no doubt. But is anyone else even trying? You tell me, I don't know.

thanks for that brother Yahya MPACUK and other orgs like CAIR, SPT etc are certainly trying we actually care about the Ummah, others judging from their circular arguments and judgemental attitudes certainly dont.

Muqtabis-un-noor

03-05-2005, 12:44 PM

The only thing men and women cant do together is religious stuff like pray, etc (excluding Janazaah Namaaz)

Unaiza

03-05-2005, 12:58 PM

I remember my mum telling me in disgust about a incident that happened after she left an arabic class....

She came out of the womens section and was walking towards the car, to wait for my brother. Inevitably the men were coming out of the brothers section and walking to the car park too.

My mum somehow tripped and all the men close to her, moved out of the way!!!

Not one thought to give her hand or somehow steady her, and she of course hurt herself, but was more hurt by the fact that the men were so scared of touching her - and hence cncern or themselves for whatever reason, neither thought of how she should feel upon contact with the ground!

What a sad state we are in these days :confused:

Musab

03-05-2005, 01:11 PM

Basayev and others. This thread is about free-mixing. Please DO NOT make posts that have nothing to do with the topic.

UmmZakariya

03-05-2005, 02:07 PM

and hence cncern or themselves for whatever reason, neither thought of how she should feel upon contact with the ground!

i know there are a few exceptions but that is typical of most Muslim men, no concern for their sisters at all, only the need to control and dominate us. INdeed so many Muslims believe that not even saving a life is farz never mind helping someone when they falter!

Yahya

03-05-2005, 02:15 PM

Muslim 3112: "No person should be alone with a woman except when there is a mahram with her."

I don't think this applies to marches, leafletting or travelling in a car full of people.

Sayf

03-05-2005, 02:18 PM

There is a Hadith which states that if there is a Brother and Sister by themselves then the 3rd is the Shaytaan, but I don't think there is any problem with people marching together in the open, (Please Correct me if im wrong) but when the Prophet (SAW) were coming to Medina, were women and men seperate?

FractionMan

03-05-2005, 02:38 PM

Yahya, with all due respect your logic is flawed.

"No person should be alone with a woman except when there is a mahram with her."

How does going to a march, leafletting, travelling in a car FULL of people in anyway equate to being alone with a woman? unless it is a really unsuccesful march and is only conduct by a strange man and woman in their living room, i wonder what they would be protesting about

:)

Yahya

03-05-2005, 02:47 PM

FractionMan

03-05-2005, 03:31 PM

Oh, thats cool...heh

NNA2001

03-05-2005, 05:06 PM

NNA2001 can you stop chit chatting unecessarily and making stupid assumptions in yet another pathetic attempt to discredit mpacuk. I have been leafleting in Ilford and guess what it was with my husband and my son. I suppose you will even attempt to look for scandal there! Anything to attack MPACUK!

umm z, could you please tell me, why do you take everything so personally?(the one yet not addressed to you)? your accusation against me was far too abusive and harsh.......may Allah (swt) forgive you. i did not address it to anyone particular in this forum for the fact that i do not know individual's reality, it was a hukm that i stated regarding the transport and freemixing.

UmmZakariya

03-05-2005, 05:13 PM

your right what i said applies to all those who have tried to attack mpacuk with this silly slur so i address my comments to all of them and to you because i do believe you want to think the worst of MPACUK.

ayqazi

03-05-2005, 06:17 PM

We should also remember that tawaaf around the Holy Kabaah takes place with both men and women walking at the same time. I don't see any circular barriers around it to separate men and women. Also the walking between Safah and Marwah - again, no barriers.

So clearly free mixing means unnecessary free mixing - not that done out of necessity.

Basayev

03-05-2005, 09:04 PM

so what will? what are you doing? What have you done to help?

I havent done anything , but i dont have the audacity to claim i am actually doing something when im not - unlike some here who seem to think "political jihad" is stopping killings and slaughter in the lands

i already told you we support the oppressed and will continue to do so but that isnt enough you just cant stop belittling MPACUK all the while admittign you dont even know that much about us! Do you now who Ahmed Zakayev is?
We lobbied the government to stop him from being extradited. Look up the case.

Yes i know about Zakayev. Yes alhumdulillah you have helped him and thats good but again your missing the point. Politcal Jihad helps individuals like Zakayev or gets rid of individual politicians but it doesnt kill invading soldiers who are raping muslim girls , it doesnt fight armies , it doesnt make much difference to the person on the street in Grozny or Kabul , unlike the Mujahideen.

We condemned the Russian government and argued against the vilification of the Chechyans after the cinema siege. We want this government to put pressure on Russia to stop their oppression in Chechnya, we support the work of charities there as i have said before we support the struggle for self-determination there and we want to vote in or convince polticians and media in this country to do the same.

I think this is where we most likely differ. Rather than give ones money to the Mujahideen or to rely on the Mujahideen , people think that convinving and relying on indivdual politicians is the better think to do. It is clearly not , the Mujahideen have more caring for the people there , they know the situation better , they put their money where mouth is , they will literally die to protect muslims in Chechnya or wherever.

But again that isnt enough for you is it? BUt then again what are you doing?? If you are so obessed with the mujahideen go and join them what are you doing here working and making so much money?

It should be the intention of every Muslim inshallah to join the Mujahideen as we all know Jihad is Fard and a fundemental part of Islam. Everyone here.

Which mpacer slandered the mujahideen? Pls note not all posters on here are mpacers.Can you pls stop slandering MPACUK?

Yes i take your point here , my mistake - i shouldnt confuse forum members with MPAC members.
I am not slandering MPACUK , any good work they have done is good , your misunderstanding me - not for the first time. I just think that are better ways to help the opressed people around the world.

MPACUK have been around a few years and you expect us to have stopped wars and liberated lands?? duh!

No , i dont but i dont expect them to imply they are stopping killings and slaughter of muslims when they''re not.

Inshallah we will affect more positive change but it will take time and effort.

Inshallah!

Pls do some reasearch on mpacuk pls read our about mpacuk section ( whih you still havent obviously) and understand what the role of a LOBBY is meant to be. You ignorance and irrational hatred of MPACUK is mind boggling.

For the last time , i dont have a hatred of MPACUK , i have critisiced it when i think they are not right , its something most people do.
We may have differences but we're brothers (and sisters) - i certainly dont feel any hatred to you or anyone here , please dont accuse me of that again

Sayf

03-05-2005, 09:24 PM

Yes i know about Zakayev. Yes alhumdulillah you have helped him and thats good but again your missing the point. Politcal Jihad helps individuals like Zakayev or gets rid of individual politicians but it doesnt kill invading soldiers who are raping muslim girls , it doesnt fight armies , it doesnt make much difference to the person on the street in Grozny or Kabul , unlike the Mujahideen. You have just proven my point that indeed you are dumb enough not to know what "Political Jihad" means, moreover you are stuck up your own arse that you do not see, how much power these Politicians have. It wasn't one General from the Army who placed thesetroops to go into Iraq or Afghanistan it was MP's liek Jack Straw, Oona King, Mike Gapes, which MPACUK are campiagning against to get rid off.

Do you even understand what "Political Jihad" means?

Isn't it better enough to get rid of these MP's before they palce another army into Syria or evan Iran? Isn't it better to rid of these MP's before one of these soldiers rape our Sisters in the places you mentioned? I mean freaking hecks come one you lunatics, on one hand you say to muslim don't vote them our and here you are telling us how the heck is this helping Muslims in other places?

Its ****s like you who have placed the Ummah as what its in now, yes idiots and plonkers like you.

Like you have stated, you havedone Jack All, and nither have you given any other methods as to how we can help???

Come one give me examples as to how we can help, which will NOT put us in jepordy?

What? Go and Fight with them, please be my guest and go there
What? FInancially support them, please support them and lets see what happens to you.

I believe Political Jihad will help them, Yes It would, it would help us to have Muslim who speak out against these counteries, to raise these issues up, and inshAllah if we get a load bunch of pro Muslims then plonkers like you will see the power of Political Jihad.

UmmZakariya

03-05-2005, 09:59 PM

Basayev really doesnt understand he only wishes to attack MPACUK Allah only knows why he wants to malign the efforts of sincere Muslims this way...

unlike some here who seem to think "political jihad" is stopping killings and slaughter in the lands

what will stop the killing and torture? Any ideas? What are you better ideas??? pls details!!!

you deal with it then if the efforts of mpac do not satisfy you, but dont obstruct us, we want to get rid of all the warmongers and torurers through political jihad and by showing them the might of Muslims, you simply want to sit at your PC and hate Muslims! Yes i believe you really hate mpacuk you wouldnt be so offensive and dimissive of our efforts and our iman if you didnt hate us. May Allah guide you and put some compassion in your heart for the Ummah inshallah.

scooby

03-05-2005, 10:06 PM

s.islam, please be careful with your use of language. subhanAllah i didnt think mpacuk tolerated language like that :eek:
:nono:

Basayev

03-05-2005, 10:11 PM

You have just proven my point that indeed you are dumb enough not to know what "Political Jihad" means, moreover you are stuck up your own arse that you do not see, how much power these Politicians have. It wasn't one General from the Army who placed thesetroops to go into Iraq or Afghanistan it was MP's liek Jack Straw, Oona King, Mike Gapes, which MPACUK are campiagning against to get rid off.

Do you even understand what "Political Jihad" means?

No i dont , i have asked many questions but have not recieved answers which leads me to believe that you dont know yourself or your ashamed to say what it is.

Isn't it better enough to get rid of these MP's before they palce another army into Syria or evan Iran?

As i have said removing individuals from certain positions doesnt change the governments actions. Jack Straw going wont change American plans on Syria or Iraq. It wont stop the killings.

Isn't it better to rid of these MP's before one of these soldiers rape our Sisters in the places you mentioned?

In the places i mentioned , this is already happening and poltical jihad has done absolutely nothing to stop it.

Its ****s like you who have placed the Ummah as what its in now, yes idiots and plonkers like you.

Finally you've shown your true self , someone who doesnt want to discuss other possible solutions but would rather resort to swearing and cursing. This is how the Kuffar debate when you talk to them. You have sunk to a new low, brother - learn how to talk properly or dont bother replying.

Like you have stated, you havedone Jack All, and nither have you given any other methods as to how we can help???

I have already stated that.

Come one give me examples as to how we can help, which will NOT put us in jepordy?

[2:214] Do you expect to enter Paradise without being tested like those before you?

What do you think?
Do you expect that we should sit at home without at the very least making intention of joining the mujahideen , and that we will then enter paradise , when we have clearly neglected an obligation , something that we are ordered to do.
It seems poltical Jihad is taking the easy way out. Sit at home , be politcal and call it a Jihad. No tests , no hardships , nothing.

What? Go and Fight with them, please be my guest and go there

As i said this should at the very very least be an intention of a believer .

Before i finish , i wanna say next time watch your language - dont swear. I know your arguements are weak but there is no need to make up for that by cursing at someone.
I hope you are not a MPACUK member as it will reflect very poorly on this organisation to have people like you try to speak up for it ( "try" being the key word here) .In fact , just by the language you use , you are putting people of this organisation all together.
Maybe the admins will warn you or something as im sure its against the rules to swear.

Basayev

03-05-2005, 10:22 PM

Basayev really doesnt understand he only wishes to attack MPACUK Allah only knows why he wants to malign the efforts of sincere Muslims this way...

I have not attacked this organisation , i put suggestions to them like , if your serious about stopping the killing and slaughter say in Chechnya or Afghanistan , then as muslims we should all support the mujhahideen as best we can , with our wealth and lives. If we're serious that is.

what will stop the killing and torture? Any ideas? What are you better ideas??? pls details!!!

Yes supporting the mujahideen an inshallah ensuring their victory by the unity of our support. Lets take an example , Abu Ghraib. We all want to stop what is going inside their , yet for someone reason we wont support the people who are working to do it , the Mujahideen. They have attacked it and caused serious damage , inshallah if they had the whole of the ummah with them , the whole place wouldnt exist anymore.

you deal with it then if the efforts of mpac do not satisfy you, but dont obstruct us, we want to get rid of all the warmongers and torurers through political jihad and by showing them the might of Muslims, you simply want to sit at your PC and hate Muslims!

I dont hate muslims. I see you're very good at throwing accusations around.Judging from S.Islam's last post it is the people here that do the hating.

abdulmojid

03-05-2005, 10:35 PM

MPACUK are a paronoid bunch!

oh yea, theres only 4 types of jihad.

Basayev

03-05-2005, 10:49 PM

Salam

Exactly what i was thinking bro. Seems to be alot of paranoia when im justing offering another opinion.

oh yea, theres only 4 types of jihad.

I havent really heard of politcal jihad - but there are 4 types:

1. Jihad an-Nafs (one's own self)

2. Jihad ash-Shaytaan (Satan)

3. Jihad al-Kuffar (the disbelievers) and al-Munafiqeen (the hypocrites)

4. Jihad ahlu (the people of) ath-Thulm (injustice), al-Bid'ah (innovation) and al-Munkaraat (sin and evil)"

Sayf

03-05-2005, 11:40 PM

I have not attacked this organisation , i put suggestions to them like , if your serious about stopping the killing and slaughter say in Chechnya or Afghanistan , then as muslims we should all support the mujhahideen as best we can , with our wealth and lives. If we're serious that is. Have you even done this before suggesting it to others? Does practice beforeyou preach come in mind.

And also, as regards to my language I sincerely apologise, but I only say stuff like that to idiotic lunatics :) who have idea's but can't be asked to pratice what they preach!!

Talib

04-05-2005, 12:08 AM

As-Salamu Alaykum

as much as anybody wishes to justify their desires the type of free mixing at MPAC has already suffered a blow and some MPAC members know that very well, im not to name and shame individuals but i dont want people pulling the wool over their own eyes on this issue.

the doors of repentance are always open for those who have tresspassed boundaries but what i have seen from MPAC from the actions of the workers their will alwyas be that potential danger of no need to mention happening.

We are all weak and we cant pretend we are soooooooo strong cos we are not, not the way i came to know about MPAC was only due to a young attractive Sister coming up to me and handing me a card, she was very attractive and i admit that freely and God forbid spending time with a woman can be dangerous to our very salvation.

Trying to justify free mixing due to tawaf is ridiculous and i advice that person to seek their Lord sincerely

Salam.

Brother Andrew @

also known as Ibn Yusuf

sunilight

04-05-2005, 12:25 AM

way i came to know about MPAC was only due to a young attractive Sister coming up to me and handing me a card, she was very attractive and i admit that freely and God forbid spending time with a woman can be dangerous to our very salvation.
Salaams i am happy you have realised the issues in hand

i suggest mpacuk take immediate action to only allow hideously ugly sisters preferably over weight wart faced moustache mono brow sisters who have a strong body odour and bad breath and a farting problem to do any mpacuk publicity

all other sisters should be at home being beautiful on there golden thrones surrounded by their mahram protectors who are on guard ready like the PI in cape fear, watching 24/7 ready to take out anyone who comes within 20 miles of these princesses.

ATTRACTIVE GIRLS SUCK THEY ARE REALLY RUINING IT FOR THE REST OF US WHO WANT TO DO NORMAL THINGS

BAN ALL ATTRACTIVE GIRLS FROM LEAVING THERE HOUSE
TODAY

VOTE FOR SUNILIGHT

Talib

04-05-2005, 12:32 AM

Saalaaaaaaaaaaaaaamzzzz

Sunlight , you had me off my chair almost lol what a response!

outsider

04-05-2005, 12:34 AM

sunilight

04-05-2005, 12:42 AM

salaams

Erm..i think the ugly ones must have Mahram protection as well..looks is no exception.

I could say more here about me voting for any possible opponent to u..but may get jumped by the "anti-men" brigade. Where are they anyway?? Did they get lost on their drive to teh demo????

ws
dehhh... i know
girls can be funni without being feminist (or accurate)...
or did you lose your sense of humour on the demo...?

i think i might have picked it up

let me know...

Sayf

04-05-2005, 12:43 AM

Huthaifah

04-05-2005, 01:10 AM

Assalam,

If you wish to dwell into conversations which attack MPACUK then please loose yourselves. If you wish to know about MPACUK's position as regards to freemixing, please go and ask a scholar as to what Islam states or contact them on info@mpacuk.org.

For those who wish to know further about MPACUK, please email them on info@mpacuk.org, as anything which I seem to be offending or attacking MPACUK will be deleted and necessary action taken upon that user. There’s constructive criticism but then again their lies and mis-information about MPACUK, which will not be tolerated on this board.

Last warning for those who have come here to cause trouble, be careful not to break any rules and regulations :)

Wassalam,
Huddy

thehook

04-05-2005, 03:14 AM

Assalaamu alaikum

What is it with you brothers; that you lower yourself to give suspicion when it is better to cover ones mistakes? Have you already forgotten, women, greater than you have stood to protect the messenger of Allah (SAW), and have rode into battles against swords and lashing of swords.

You don't question when nurses attend your needs when in hospital within UK, and you sure don't speak a word when you enter a place where there's one woman at a college or uni reception, when no one around, and yet, you would be ready to tarnish sisters reputation.

It is not good to throw suspicion at sisters. Have we not learnt the lesson in which there was much wisdom with the story of Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her).

How many times people mentioned to a few of you here, that if you have questions regarding MPAC then the decent thing to do instead of trying to cause fitna and make us all argue with each other is email MPAC.

i came to know about MPAC was only due to a young attractive Sister coming up to me and handing me a card, she was very attractive and i admit that freely and God forbid spending time with a woman can be dangerous to our very salvation

Brother, have you no honour to say such words. How you know she maybe my sister, or some brother's sister here. Put your gaze down then! The test came from our Lord to you, to see what you would do maybe.

Please talk, all of us, in a way to elevate our sisters to their rightful place. Don't put suspicion on them, and segregation issue can be answered with honour, and integrity to email MPAC.

if your serious about stopping the killing and slaughter say in Chechnya or Afghanistan , then as muslims we should all support the mujhahideen as best we can , with our wealth and lives. If we're serious that is.

This has been answered so many times and yet, we seem to either be unwise, or want to open the doors to the enemies of Islam. Brave talk but no thought, no understanding of strategy, no thinking of not showing your cards to your enemies. How you know what anyone does? How you know? You think someone who aids Mujihideen and who is trained, will be so foolish to promote it to the world and put others in danger?

Bonsia genocide, there is a story, where a young British Muslims is talking about Mujideen in, and how he does this and that, how much was raised, and who gave monies and who supports etc, etc. He walks home, and fifteen minuites later he gets a tap on shoulder.

A Muslim takes him round corner and says:

"Are you a fool? Keep your mouth shut! We did not train you to suddenly speak like an idoit but to do your work quietly. Do you realise how many years you have set us back? Do you realise the danger you put others in? A Mujahid drinks water from a river not lying down but on his knees, always watchful. You are of the parrable in which you did so without keeping an eye and protect your brothers and got his throat cut!"

That was a Mujahid speaking to the young Muslims and my advise is the same. Don't think you're doing them a favour, gloating to world what you do and how you support them. Keep your mouth shut, if you support them.

Wassalaam

Talib

04-05-2005, 03:58 AM

im sorry mr hook but i recall you eposing somebodys mistakes on the mecca2medina forum so all that advice you gave me just went all out the window, maybe you should practice what you preach

Talib

04-05-2005, 04:25 AM

..........................................................

thehook

04-05-2005, 04:33 AM

im sorry mr hook but i recall you eposing somebodys mistakes on the mecca2medina forum so all that advice you gave me just went all out the window, maybe you should practice what you preach

There is a saying Talib, think before you speak, cause you may think you maybe a fox trying to outwit a fox, but you'll find, a lion don't outwit anyone, he just slaps them hard.

If you know my occuppation, is that I am an Editor in Chief, and the newspaper is Wha' a gwan, and its role, is to reveal corrupt organisations, and organisations, system, whether Muslims or non-Muslim which uses monies to tap into funds which isn't in their line of work, to raise their profile and dangering the work that those in the field rely on that work. One of my roles is investigating certain jobs, organisations and so forth, and print them with full evidence and warn Muslims and Non-Muslims. It's called politics, corruption, and I'll do the same with Imams and mosques anyday!

So, I suggest Talib, don't bother talking about what you don't know, in regards of the organisation I spoke about and corruption because mine is based on facts, evidence, emails, correspondonce and more. Not suspicion. See the difference. If an organisation is corrupt, or I see something I feel is wasting peoples monies, I make it clear with evidence! Yours....is suspicion, on a sister, you couldn't put your gaze down.

You know our crew? Talib, this isn't a Hip Hop joint mate. You know jack about me cause you get to realise I AIN'T IN A CREW! i AIN'T IN AN ORGANISATION! AND i AIN'T SOME DORK who doesn't know what the Shariah says about mixing!

So I say it again! PUT YOUR GAZE DOWN!

she had no badness whatsoever infact she was sent over to me by a brother who could have came himself but the fact they at Mpac use attractive girls to further their organisation is WRONG!!!!

You know what? this debate between you and me, is over. Way over cause I see you want to cause fitna already just in these words. :nono:

Wassalaam

Talib

04-05-2005, 05:16 AM

Well again you have made false accusations.
and it's not the first time i have heard you bragging about your occupation, though every time you tell it its a different occupation and all corrupt organizations will be reaveled in due time, its only a matter of time.

despite claiming to be the lion thinking that somehow you have slapped me with your fancy remarks you have accused me of looking at a sister and not putting my gaze down, wallahi i walked away and wallahi i looked at her very breifly and turned away, so you can shove your false accusations where the sun dont shine.

My above statements are based upon facts thats if you could be bothered to read properly! when i made the claim that two Members of MPAC had made the slip due to free mixing you dont know what facts i had based it on, the fact is you dont know who i am and who i know here and i know more than you think, i have sat back and watched your gabba on quite a few forums so dont do yourself a badness by coming here and trying to judge me.

the thing is you have this psudo peity problem self righteousness and that lion you claim to be ....you really need to chill on fancy sentences like that

the fact that is embarrasing for you is that you dont know who i am but i know well who you are, you can say i dont know jack about you, even more so you know jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack about me

if i wanted to cause the fitnah i would have done a far greater damage than the mistakes i made here tonight.

i shouldnt have metioned people by name but when MPAC uses females to attract attention then that is wrong, infact i know somebody that not only got a MPAC card but also a phone number, an email address and Lord knows what else and if you think im lying to you about that then invoke the curse of Allah upon me.

and im serious there never was a debate here so dont big upself, you tell me to lower my gaze you lower your pride man because you tooo puffed up, i need to lower mine aswell - im done here -

UmmZakariya

04-05-2005, 08:47 AM

i shouldnt have metioned people by name but when MPAC uses females to attract attention then that is wrong, infact i know somebody that not only got a MPAC card but also a phone number, an email address and Lord knows what else and if you think im lying to you about that then invoke the curse of Allah upon me.

So what else was there??? i am so completely sickened by Talib's comments his slurs against MPACUK are completely disgusting and unfounded i have on occasaion handed cards to brothers and sisters who have expressed interest within Muslim gatherings and marches etc no decent minded Muslim would object to this, yes they have had numbers on them, the number to our HR personel Talib thinks this is somehow sordid. Talib you have shown your true colors and your extreme hatred of your fellow brothers and sisters i believed myself to be thick skinned i have read people hate, takfeer/insult me personally and mpacuk as a whole on this forum but this alliegation that we use attractive sisters to recriut people has truly hurt me, Talib does not realise how many people he is slandering with this accusation. Do you think true Muslims who care about the Ummah need an incentive to help us?? Do you think we are such degenerates? Do you know what the Islamic punishment for slander is?? May Allah forgive you because to cause such grave pain and offence is surely a sin.

if i wanted to cause the fitnah i would have done a far greater damage

You do indeed wish to cause fitnah and damage to MPACUK, why are you being like the the open enemies of Islam who heap accusations on us? Talib if you believed that sister and other Muslims sisters to be your sisters you would not make such allegations. And if you truly cared about the Ummah you would see the good intentions of MPACUK and not slander us this way.

A hadith that we shoudl all take seriously esp Talib:

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiyallahu anhu) narrates that
Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said:
"When a man observing faults of others says (by way of
complaint and adopting a holier than thou attitude
considering himself free of fault): 'People are
corrupt', then this person will soon become the most
corrupted (because he has despised the Believers)."
(Muslim)

Yahya

04-05-2005, 10:00 AM

Salam

Exactly what i was thinking bro. Seems to be alot of paranoia when im justing offering another opinion.

I havent really heard of politcal jihad - but there are 4 types:

1. Jihad an-Nafs (one's own self)

2. Jihad ash-Shaytaan (Satan)

3. Jihad al-Kuffar (the disbelievers) and al-Munafiqeen (the hypocrites)

4. Jihad ahlu (the people of) ath-Thulm (injustice), al-Bid'ah (innovation) and al-Munkaraat (sin and evil)"

Bro.Basayev, Let's not get too caught up in semantics. The term political jihad is a good slogan which captures the idea that we can strive to help our brothers and sisters waging jihad elsewhere.

When Hamas fight the Israelis they are mujahideen. When they do political work do they cease to be mujahideen? An army is not just its front line, it is also those who support from the rear. If the support we can best offer is political support, then who would reject it?

I have never seen a Palestinian sneer at me for attending a march against Israel, or handing out leaflets urging a boycott of Isaeli goods. Palestinians appreciate the support we give them. They don't raise their eyebrows and quibble about the meaning of jihad. They have thousands of mujahideen who will lay down their lives. There is no shortage. Perhaps we could serve them better by fighting for a change in political attitudes here.

UmmZakariya

04-05-2005, 10:15 AM

I have never seen a Palestinian sneer at me for attending a march against Israel, or handing out leaflets urging a boycott of Isaeli goods. Palestinians appreciate the support we give them. They don't raise their eyebrows and quibble about the meaning of jihad.

basayev likes to sneer...and imply mpacuk are cowards! i can say having been to Palestine and spoken to brothers and sisters there i can confirm that, i told them abotu what mpacuk are doing, what we have achieved small sucesses no doubt but Alhamdulilah they have made us stronger, for example i told some sisters how we (mpacuk did some work but the real lobbyign was doen by concerned indivudual Muslims of course) had lobbied watford council and the Israeli football team had been refused permission to play there, it made them so happy to them it made such a difference we are speaking up for them and defending them and holding those that oppress them or support their oppression to acccount. Those that think this political jihad is the easy way out or we are cowardly pls do better if you can. MPACUK wont ridicule you like you belittle and ridicule us we will support you as long as you support the Ummah.